Talk:Abraham Isaac Kook

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[edit] Definition of Labor

The link to labor is ambiguous. Can someone please update it? Rossami 05:14, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

  • I've changed it to a link to Labor Zionism, which is the movement specifically being discussed.--Pharos 05:25, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Name of article

Should this article be named "Abraham Isaac Kook" if Rav Kook is more often referred to by his hebrew name, "Avraham Yitzchak Kook"? If you take a look at the Orthodox rabbis category page, ([1]), the majority are referred to by their hebrew, and not anglified names. Nevertheless, I feel that there should be a standard for this issue; nothing seems to quite cover it. Ayinyud 17:34, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

  • A google search indicates that "Abraham Isaac Kook" is much more common (25,200 pages vs. 511 pages). Of course, google results are misleading sometimes, but I dom't see a particular reason why they would be in this case. I don't think we should generally have a standard on anglicization; as popular English writing seems to have an idiosyncratic increasing acceptance of Hebrew names for later figures, we should probably just evaluate each case individually.--Pharos 18:23, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Distortion?

I feel that it's important to point out a tremendous distortion of Rav Kook, that is dispalyed on this site.

The text on Wikipedia states:

"Abraham Isaac Kook a well-known proponent of Religious Zionism.....the founder of the Religious Zionist Yeshiva Merkaz Harav".

If one clicks on the link for "Religious Zionism", it is defined as follows:

"The Religious Zionist Movement, or Religious Zionism, also called Mizrachi...."

If one reads through Rav Kook's many brilliant works, one thing is very clear- he did not view himself as a leader, or part of the "Mizrachi".

For those who may beg to differ, I will include a clear example (of the many), by quoting from the text of one of Rav Kook's letter (in Zichron Rayah):

Rav Kook:

"This gave rise to the not long ago to the Mizrachi association. But this is not a complete remedy, since in the end we are still strengthening secular zionism....We can never guard ourselves from the influence of the secularists......How then are the Mizrachim protected from the evil influence of lawless Zionism on their children!"

Anonymous- if you think there's an oversimplification/conflation of Rav Kook's philosophy and Mizrachim/Religious Zionism, I suggest you try to explain the distinction in a few sentences in the article. (Or here on the talk page.) That would seem to be the best and easiest solution, particularly since many people seem to share the understanding that Kook was a major proponent of Religious Zionism, and if this is a misconception, it should be addressed as well as corrected.ShalomShlomo 20:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

ShalomShlomo wrote: "I suggest you try to explain the distinction"

It seems quite strange to think R' Kook was a leader or even part of Mizrachi, when he clearly wrote the shortcomings and reasons why it was not an alternative for the Jewish people.

Rav Kook wrote in one of his many letters (in Zichron Rayah): "We can never guard ourselves from the influence of the secularists......How then are the Mizrachim protected from the evil influence of lawless Zionism on their children!" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.195.241.62 (talk • contribs) .

Rav Kook described an alternative to Zionism (Zionism, being inclusive of secular and Mizrachi)--he viewed a "Grand Coalition" which all the great Torah leaders of that time would join, and show the rest of the world's Jewish population that a strong "Torah and Halacha true" alternative must be the foundation and future of the Jewish people and eventually the Jewish state. He felt that such a group of absolute and uncompromising (in halacha) Torah leaders would eventually influence and transform the Zionists into a halachic and g-d fearing body that would eventually lead to a Jewish state run according to Jewish (halacha) law, which would in turn lead to the Messiah.

Apparently that's not exactly how things played out..... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.195.241.62 (talk • contribs) .

Thanks for correcting the article (it is now much more accurate)! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.67.146.35 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] (now) religious Zionist

can someone please explain why Mercaz harav is described as "(now) Religious Zionist Yeshiva Merkaz Harav" in the introduction? Was it previously not religious Zionist?

Perhaps the most simple way to prove the point (that it is NOW a "Religious Zionist" Yeshiva) is by contrasting a picture of the graduates from Yeshiva Merkaz Harav, when Rav A.I. Kook was still alive V. the current leadership. When Rav Kook was alive, all the student were wearing the traditional chareidi garb (hat,jackets,etc.). Only NOW do the students wear clothing associated with "Religious Zionism." I think that the author of this page should address this key fact about Rav Kook and his Yeshiva. Ayinyud 14:12, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rabbi Kook "opposed Religious Zionism"???

"Under Zvi Yehuda's leadership, both his father's image and yeshiva eventually became associated with Religious Zionism, ironically conflating Kook's real ideas with those of a group he actually opposed"

Where is there a proof that he opposed Religious Zionism? It is one thing to say that he critizied Mizrachi on occasions, but to go as far as to say he opposed Religious Zionism? Please supply proof to uphold this statement.

  • Please sign your comment/s with the four tildes ~~~~ which will automatically produce your user name and time of the edit, and so that we can better know who is saying what to whom and when. Thank you. IZAK 12:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Answer to the question above: Do you know of any "religious zionist" students today, that dress the way the students of Rav Kook dressed? The Of course the answer is no-because they live and are lectured a different outlook and understanding in Judaism. There is no possible way to fabricate the facts on ground and say that Rav Kook and his students, have anything in common with the "religious zionists" of today.

[edit] Rabbi, not Rabbi

I noticed that at times R' Kook is called R' Kook and other times is merely called Kook. I don't want to edit anything before there's a consensus on the issue.Yossiea 19:03, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I generally write R' Kook at the beginning of a paragraph or section and otherwise use the standard biographical "surname". Other pages I've worked on reg. rabbinical figures have had every usage of the person's name changed to have an R or Rabbi in front of it, but mostly it seems to depend how much of an issue/stink the editor in question makes. I don't know if there's any formal policy regarding the issue.ShalomShlomo 23:28, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Views on Temple Mount?

This is fairly interesting and very important politically as far as sharing the Holy City. I don't know if he is considered a controlling authority. "Author's note: No less an authority than Rabbi Abraham Isaac Hacohen Kook, first chief rabbi of British Mandatory Palestine, ruled that "it is a Torah commandment that until the day of the resurrection, we are not permitted to even enter the courtyard of the Temple."The fact that Jewish law can be summarily ignored or rescinded for reasons of politics and ideology does not bode well. Neither does the possibility that it can only be revamped for reasons of right-wing politics or ideology. " Bradley Burston in Haaretz If this checks out, isn't a significant enough view to be in the article?Godspeed John Glenn! Will 21:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Stamp Kook.jpg

Image:Stamp Kook.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] R. Kook and gentiles

[edit] Quote for Rabbi Kook

I'm deleting the anti-gentile quote again for three reasons: (1) A quote should cite a primary source, not a newspaper article (2) One quote lacking context seems odd to add to an article. (3) If Rabbi Kook & gentiles is a worthy subtopic for the article to deal with, this quote is only one piece of a broader, more complicated picture.

I think there should be a discussion by editors of how to proceed. I'd be happy to add some of my favorite Kook quotes. I suspect that there is sufficient secondary literature to create a brief, objective analysis of the broader question.

Yudel (talk) 19:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Your demands for a source are above the Wikipedia standard. Ha'aretz is the best Israeli newspaper and its articles are enough as a source for anything. And, the quotation was attributed.
OK, I would add some context.
OK, I agree that this section will be marked as a stub.
—Guy Peters Talk • Contributions • Edit counter 20:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Another quote regarding the nations of the world: “God was charitable toward His world by not endowing all talents in one place, nor with one person, nor with one nations, nor with one country, nor with one generation, nor with one world. But the talents are diffused. The necessity of seeking perfection... causes us to seek an exalted unity..... In that day will the Lord be one, and His name one.” (The Essential Writings of Abraham Isaac Kook, Ben Zion Bosker, p.202) Yudel (talk) 01:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

Yair Sheleg's cite of Kook's hatred towards goyim: "[T]he difference between the Israelite soul... and the souls of all non-Jews, no matter what their level, is bigger and deeper than the difference between the human soul and the animal soul," is repeatedly deleted. Hence the NPOV template. —Guy Peters Talk • Contributions • Edit counter 16:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I think this is a matter of undue weight. This is a short article and Rav Kook was known for many things, many wonderful teachings. I think it is undue weight to give this one out of context very damming quote about non-Jews. Bigglovetalk 22:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

No. I just wish put this information somewhere. You may know Rav Kook for other things, but Ha'aretz cites him for his hatred towards goyim. —Guy Peters Talk • Contributions • Edit counter 16:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)