Talk:1776 (musical)

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Contents 1 Historical accuracy 2 1998 NBA All-Star Game 3 Plot Section 4 Quotes

[edit] Historical accuracy

The link to Peter Stone's article comparing the musical "1776" with actual history is not working. Does anyone recall what content was contained at the link? If it was simply a copy of Stone's introduction to the published libretto of "1776," then it is available through that source (and the link site was probably a copyvio). If it's something else, I'd be very interested if anyone knows whether it's available from another source. Thanks, Newyorkbrad 00:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Link is still broken. Interestingly, the article notwithstanding, I was still in school at the time and remember the play as being criticized by my teachers for being too contrived and insufficiently adhering to the real historical facts rather than the opposite. Since I now have no way of proving this, I'm letting it be all the same. Rlquall 01:40, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I love the play/film, but there's no question that it's fictionalized. As some examples, compare the character of James Wilson with James Wilson, or Thomas McKean with Thomas McKean, or Stephen Hopkins with Stephen Hopkins, or Joseph Hewes with Joseph Hewes. It's still a great musical. Newyorkbrad 14:43, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Tried to fix the said link to this interesting historic musical, but found another that I did link currently todayKidsheaven 00:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

i think someone should mention the anacronsim contained in the song 'cool, considerate men'. the conservative singers dance 'ever to the right' to describe their political nature. the left vs. right description did not come into use until the meeting of the french national assembly, just before the french revolution. in the assembly the conservatives who wished to retain the monarchy sat to the right whil the liberals in favor of democracy, including robespierre, sat to the left. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.167.131.61 (talk) 02:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I once had a copy of a published script of 1776, complete with the full book and lyrics of the stage musical. It also had a terrific appendix with a long list of clarifications on how the play omitted, added, or adjusted specific elements of historical detail. It shows that quite a bit of genuine historical fact is embedded within the play, and explains the dramatic license for making certain changes. For example, part of a real historical quote is omitted because it was sounded too good to be true: in one of John Adams' lines predicting future trouble by compromising on the issue of slavery, his complete statement came very close to predicting the actual date of the future Civil War -- so they left that part out.Blue Rattle 02:12, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I've condensed the "historical accuracy" section a bit, converting it into prose and eliminating a bit of trivia. There are too many historical inaccuracies in the musical to list them all without becoming pointlessly nitpicky (e.g., did you know that John Hancock would not have been sitting in the president's chair during the debate?). We should just stick to the central deviations from history. —Kevin Myers 04:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1998 NBA All-Star Game

Before the 1998 NBA All-Star Game, the cast from 1776 sang the national anthem in Madision Square Garden (where the All-Star game was being held). Thought this might be a useful factoid.

DaDoc540 01:25, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plot Section

I'm not really well-versed in the ways of Wikipedia, but I really don't think that the article should have such a large, detailed overview of the plot. Wouldn't a short summary, maybe a few paragraphs long, suffice? 24.46.78.98 03:19, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm torn, frankly. I wrote the plot sections as one of my first major contributions to WP, and, looking at it over the past day or two, I was thinking it's a little long. On the other hand, from a historical standpoint, it's really the only place on Wikipedia that details the goings-on of the Second Continental Congress that ended with the adoption of the Declaration of Independence. In fact, I believe that both articles link to this one (or, at least, they did) because of that fact. With that in mind -- that it's as much a plot summary as historical record -- I'm inclined to keep it as it is. —  MusicMaker5376 14:46, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the plot section is too long. Every scene of the musical is essentially fictional, so there's no need for a detailed plot for historical purposes. 1776 is wonderfully enjoyable, but the claim that it is historically accurate has been overstated in the article. —Kevin Myers 13:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I've since removed the unsupported claims that the musical's "historical accuracy is remarkable". It may be accurate compared to the average musical comedy, but is probably no more accurate than the average Hollywood docudrama. In any event, such claims should be referenced to be included. —Kevin Myers 04:41, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes

First, a well-met congratulations to Kevin for cleaning up the article!
However, I'm concerned about the claim that Adams was "well-liked" during this period. The oft-repeated phrase of him being "obnoxious and disliked" came from one of his famous letters to Abagail (in the original as "disliked and obnoxious"). He was defintely "prone to periods of melancholy", and that line probably stems from one of them, but it's such an iconic line in the show that we should mention its source. Also, I think it's important to say, at some point, that at least some of the dialogue is the speakers' own words, taken from their own writings. Jefferson's line "to put into words so plain...", Livingston's line about what goes on at the NY legislature (I think), and, of course, half of what Franklin says. (I love this exchange: Adams: I have better things to do than stand around and listen to you quote yourself! Franklin: Oh, that was a new one....) — MusicMaker5376 22:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the congrats! I will soon add footnotes for the various changes I've made when I get the necessary books in hand. The argument that Adams was not disliked while he was in the Continental Congress comes from David McCullough, who could find no disparaging references to Adams in any writings of the other delegates at the time. In an appendix to the new paperback edition of McCullough's book he discusses this more, specifically contrasting his interpretation with that of the musical. I've perhaps not worded his argument correctly in the article, and I'll adjust it when I have the references in front of me. I agree that mention should be made that some dialogue comes from actual writings; I'll put that in as I revise, if someone doesn't beat me to it. Cheers! —Kevin Myers 00:45, 4 June 2008 (UTC)