Talk:Youth International Party

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[edit] Comments

I'm going to delete the "alternative modern use"--please don't restore it unless you you can supply some citations for this use of the word. "Yuppie" was derived from "yippie," and it meant pretty much exactly what this post claims "yippie" means. And the "Chomskite" buisness is hopelessly POV.

"yuppie" as in "young urban professional"? 60.234.229.137 12:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Yuppie is far more capitalism oriented. The neologism use of "yippie" here is a somewhat popular alternative to "yupster" (yuppie-hipster) except forging hippie and yuppie together. Yippie as such is supposed to describe middle-class, anti-capitalist, anti-authoritarians who have thrown away personal activism in favor of sideline cheering. The type of folks who would frequent yuppie Starbucks only to self-righteously buy the one "fair trade" option. A quick google search pulls up these:

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=44d9c450-26c4-4eee-b098-08049d180d96&k=32144 http://www.strategicmarketingmontreal.ca/2006/07/grups-are-never-broken-down-by-age-and.html http://thedailygrowl.blogspot.com/2006/01/yippie-yindie-yupster-which-are-you.html http://williamgillis.blogspot.com/2004_08_01_williamgillis_archive.html

The alternative definition is already mentioned on the Yuppie page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie#Related_terms

--24.21.85.144 01:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Political Party

This article leaves me asking "What was their agenda? What did they believe? What did they wish to accomplish? Where were they on the political spectrum?" Yes, they were theatrical, but they were a political party, they had to have some sort of platform right? Kyaa the Catlord 14:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I think this is a fair criticism - I know what the Yippies were about, but if you read the article cold it doesn't come through. If someone has the time and energy, expansion here would be a good idea. If I can find the time I'll try, but I hope someone will get the ball rolling. Tvoz 20:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] high times/tom forcade affiliation

I believe something should be written about High Times founder Tom Forcade's affiliation with the yippies.


Yeah. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.30.72 (talk • contribs) 04:31, 4 June 2007

[edit] Other movement called "Yippies"?

What I searched for when I got to this article is a movement called yippies I've heard of, which by the information on this wikipage does not seem to have anything to do with the Youth International Party. They supposedly where something of an misantrophic group, something of an counter-hippie movement, which where represented in the more destructive parts of phreaking and blackhat hacking, seeking ways to crush the society (by hacking banks, information infrastructure etc.) and creating, spreading and hosting of so called "anarchy philes" (plans for making bombs, guns and other weapons). They are mentioned several times in the book "Copyright finns inte" (Copyright Doesn't Exist) by Linus Walleij from the late 90's. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.216.158.20 (talk) 13:23, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

Here is an excerpt from an english translation of the book:

Yippies are a kind of tough hippies that do not hesitate to use violence and terrorism to obliterate (as far as possible) American society. They also advocate the use of hallucinogens. Yippies consist of people that have become so sick of American society and its system that they only see one solution to the problem - total destruction. As opposed to classical anarchists, they were not opposed to technology; rather, they exploited all knowledge and resources available to them. One of the most frightening aspects of the yippie movement was that many of its members were quite intelligent . The yippies represented fundamentally different values and norms, which rocked the foundation of American culture.

[1] 80.216.158.20 00:54, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, after re-reading this wikipedia article I think it actually is the same yippies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.158.20 (talk) 00:58, August 30, 2007 (UTC)
I'd say that book had it completely wrong. Yes, some Yippies thought hacking was a revolutionary act, but they foresaw corporate domination of the web and wanted to stop it. Yippies want to radically change society, but that doesn't mean "total destruction" and "terrorism". Nice to think we "rocked the foundation of American culture" though.Berkeleysappho (talk) 12:52, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Yippie poster.jpg

Image:Yippie poster.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] House Un-American Activities Committee

I copied the material from House Un-American Activities Committee. It needs more sources, and more detailed referencing. I added some reference details to the reference links. It needs more work, though. Maybe some people can help. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Judy Collins

I think it is a dubious proposition to claim that Judy Collins is an "activist associated with the Yippies" because she sang at a press conference they sponsored. I think that it is likely that as far as she was concerned, it was a generic anti-war event. I think we should be cautious under BLP about making this sort of association, because Collins does not generally have a reputation as an anarchist bozo dilletante. (see Judy Collins#Activism.)--Leatherstocking (talk) 16:54, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

"anarchist bozo dilletante". Interesting. As opposed to blind, chest-thumping, goose-stepping, herd-following supporters of a war that eventually most people came to realize was a mistake? Wikipedia is not a political forum. Please see WP:TALK. In her 2004 interview with Bill Moyers she didn't say anything that indicated she regretted her participation. Here is the relevant part of the interview below.--Timeshifter (talk) 20:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

NOW with Bill Moyers. November 26, 2004 transcript [2]. PBS.

MOYERS: Is it true that back in '69 and '70, you were called to testify before Judge Hoffman in the trial of the Chicago Seven?

COLLINS: Yes. I was asked to testify at the trial. And I said, I'd be happy to.

MOYERS: Judy Collins had not been present in Chicago in August of 1968 when protesters against the war in Vietnam clashed violently with the police at the Democratic National Convention. But six months earlier, in New York, leaders of the YIPPIES — a countercultural group known as the Youth International Party — had asked her to sing at their first press conference. And she did. Some of the YIPPIES would be arrested for their role in the Chicago riots that August, and at their trial the next year, Judy Collins was called to testify.

COLLINS: So when Judge Hoffman asked me if I would tell them what I did at the press conference, I said, well, this is what I did. "Where have all the flowers gone?"

And along came the guard from the door and put his hand over my mouth and stopped me singing. And the Judge said, you can't sing in court.

MOYERS: They muffled you.

COLLINS: They muffled me. They muffled me. Well, those were the years, you know. There was… the war was going on and… that war, which we've now revisited so much in these past few months, it's been very painful.

MOYERS: Why did you put your career on the line for that?

COLLINS: Well, I didn't think of it as doing that. You know, that's part of my upbringing. When you have a political idea, when you have a belief, then you take an action and you make your presence and your point of view known. And it wouldn't have mattered if I was a singer or a person who was teaching at a university. I knew many, many of those people who became part of the movement and were protesting against the war, I marched with a lot of them around the country.

MOYERS: Did the war make you angry?

COLLINS: Oh, still makes me angry.

MOYERS: The Vietnam War?

COLLINS: Oh, my God. It's so heartbreaking to me and so painful. One of the most painful parts of it, of course, that everybody knew. Everybody knew we were on the wrong track. And eventually, we'd say so, whether it was McNamara or President Johnson, or whoever it was, finally would come around to just a terrible mistake. I don't know that I've ever seen anybody say it was a great thing to do.

I don't see regret in Judy Collins remarks. I see pride. The sheep back then are the ones now who seem to have regret now for calling antiwar leaders "anarchist bozo dilettantes" back then. Of course some people still believe in their fairy tales of glorious war to "liberate" the savages while killing millions of the savages in order to "save" them. Or they believe in quiet, buttoned-down, polite activism only that doesn't require them to stick their necks out, or to sing in public at Yippie press conferences, or in court. --Timeshifter (talk) 20:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I believe that you are conflating opposition to the war with support for the Yippies. Collins opposed the war, there is no argument about that. The Yippies were more about legalizing reefer than stopping the war. WP:BLP requires us to think twice about affiliating Collins with the group, unless you have something more concrete than the source you are offering. --Leatherstocking (talk) 03:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article does not say she was a Yippie. It said she was associated with the Yippies. The article quotes her. You can't get more concrete than that. WP:IDONTLIKEIT on your part does not negate this. WP:BLP means we put out info from reliable sources. Bill Moyers and PBS are reliable sources. The quotes are reliable. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
By the way, can we stop the political discussion, and stick to writing a Wikipedia article? I am sure we both have many opinions on all the issues. And I am sure we have many opinions on what the Yippies were or were not. But simplistic incorrect analysis such as "anarchist bozo dilettantes" and "more about legalizing reefer than stopping the war" is just one POV amony many, and only invites my equally simplistic, sarcastic comments in reply. I actually have a much more nuanced opinion on cannabis, the Yippies, and the effectiveness of various forms of political activism. But that type of discussion is not what wikipedia talk pages are made for. Please see WP:TALK.
Also, you did not fill out the RFC wikicode correctly, and you put it in the wrong place. You put it in the middle of our discussion. I moved it down below our discussion to avoid confusion. Your RFC is still incorrectly formatted. I did not change it in any way. --Timeshifter (talk) 07:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I believe that I have fixed the RfC template. Your clarification edit in the article is misleading: you say that Moyers asked Collins whether she put her career on the line for "that and the other activism," "that" referring, by implication, to the Yippies. Moyers did not ask her about the Yippies at all. -- this is your own original research. I would request that you remove it. --Leatherstocking (talk) 17:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Bill Moyers specifically discussed the Yippies, as did Judy Collins. Read the relevant part of the interview copied higher up in this section (interview is in italics). I clarified the text further though in several ways. For example; I clarified "associated with". Here is the first part of the sentence in question: "Other activists associated with the Yippies (though not all called themselves 'Yippies')...". There is no reason you couldn't have clarified this yourself instead of deleting all the Judy Collins info as you originally did. It is a violation of Wikipedia guidelines to delete sourced info. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:46, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RfC: Does singing at an anti-war press conference, sponsored by the Yippies, make Judy Collins a Yippie?

  • No, but then no part of the article is claiming Judy Collins called herself a Yippie. Testifying at the Chicago Seven trial does not make her a Yippie either. The article only states the facts of her singing at the first press conference of the Yippies, and of testifying at the Chicago Seven trial. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Then I question her inclusion in the article as one of "Other activists associated with the Yippies (though not all called themselves 'Yippies'.)" The essential point of WP:BLP is "do no harm." The article Judy Collins makes no reference to any association with the Yippies. I think that the implication in this article could be embarassing to Ms. Collins. --Leatherstocking (talk) 16:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
What harm? She is not embarrassed by these facts. She is proud of her activism. She said so to Bill Moyers. Obviously, from your previous remarks, you would be embarrassed if you had been involved with the Yippees. But this article is about the Yippees, not you. The biography article about Judy Collins is another article. The editors there have to choose what facts (out of many) to include. They have to put the main details of her life in her biography article. There is not enough room there to put all details of her life. They have to pick and choose. I leave that up to the editors of that article. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Again, I must object to your sleight-of-hand logic. Collins says she is proud of her anti-war activism, which is what Moyers is asking her about. He is not asking her about any connection to the Yippies, and she is not answering about it. The idea that anti-war activism is the same as support for the Yippies is your idea and yours alone. --Leatherstocking (talk) 02:36, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
You must not be reading the same interview. I will let other readers decide. The sleight-of-hand logic, and constant spinning of the facts, is on your end. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:25, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citation tag for Yippie sense of humor

I removed the "citation needed" tag that appeared after the statement that the Yippies were famous for their sense of humor. The article provides several examples of the Yippies' pranks.76.69.120.101 (talk) 18:10, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello. I moved this talk section to the bottom of the talk page. New talk sections go to the bottom of talk pages. Please see WP:TALK. --Timeshifter (talk) 14:09, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] advertisement

I would like to know why the article received the advertisement tag. Could someone select some parts of it that show that bias ? I dont see them —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.107.45.30 (talk) 17:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I just removed the advertisement tag. Nothing in the article has been claimed to be an advertisement. The tag had been up since February 2008. It is up to the person making the claim of advertisement to point out the advertisement. Otherwise the tag is meaningless. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:29, 3 June 2008 (UTC)