From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Buddhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Buddhism. Please participate by editing the article Yogacara, or visit the project page for more details on the projects. Guidelines: Chinese Manual of Style - Naming conventions Indic Manual of Style - Naming conventions Japanese Manual of Style Korean Manual of Style - Naming conventions Tibetan Proposed naming conventions
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
Article Grading: The article has not been rated for quality and/or importance yet. Please rate the article and then leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

Removed:

But as the Western understanding of Buddhism matures, it will be very useful for us if we can round out our theoretical understanding of Buddhism by studying a bit about Yogācāra.

Since it's unneccessary and very POV. Simon 81.229.85.178 23:38, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

maybe unnecessary, but not sure about POV - studying yogacara is typically a precursor to studying madyamaka in tibetan monastery education; since madyamaka and yogacara evolved relating to one another, it is at least in that system considered that for better understanding of madyamaka, some knowledge of yogacara is at least welcome --Aryah 05:44, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 re Where the karma is stored? 2 translations of rangtong and shentong 3 Yogacara in English 4 Practice-oriented 5 Merge? 6 fact 7 Edit in section Legacy of the Yogacara 7.1 Potential source list to expand article 7.2 Recent Edits to this article

[edit] re Where the karma is stored?

When reading about complex yogacarin concepts, I recalled this: Once a monk asked the Buddha (Shakyamuni) about something, saying that if he won't fulfill his curiosity immediately, he will leave the sangha (he probably was a very smart and scholarly monk). Buddha then asked him whether he ever promised him that he will be given answers to such questions when he asked permission to join sangha. The monk replied that no, he did not indeed. Buddha then told him a story about the poisoned arrow ("please do not remove this poisoned arrow until you tell me who exactly fired it, with what bow, from what angle" etc). It is interesting to know where exactly karma is stored before it manifests but I heard a good answer to similar question once: "when (if) you attain enlightement, you will see it yourself". This is indeed a rare piece of humor, IMO. The said monk had an advantage, to be honest: he was able to ask the Buddha himself.

[edit] translations of rangtong and shentong

in the article are translated as 'noble conduct' and 'noble view' in actuality, they literally mean 'emptiness of self' and 'emptiness of other', respectively

I'm not familiar with the 'conduct/view' interpretation of these concepts.

Nor me; I've corrected those glosses.

--MrDemeanour 16:32, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Better still, and more accurately, perhaps one could use "intrinsic emptiness" and "extrinsic emptiness"--Stephen Hodge 01:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yogacara in English

I don't think it's accurate to say, as the conclusion of this article does, that "there are really no good, accessible books on the topic [of yogacara] in English." To mention just one, there is William Waldron's book on the Alayavijnana, a thoroughgoing and eminently readable examination of this basic Yogacara concept, which also compares it to the concept of the unconscious as explicated by Jung and Freud. Indeedy, the book is a revision of Waldron's Ph.D. thesis.

That's just one example of a very good book on Yogacara in English. There are others.

[edit] Practice-oriented

I'm uneasy about the paragraph contrasting the Yogacara with "more practice-oriented" traditions. The Yogacarins were so named because they were dedicated and expert at meditation practice. I appreciate that the remark is referring to the transmission of Buddhism in the west, and I'm not sure how to fix this at the moment; so I've done nothing. -- MrDemeanour 10:26, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge?

cittamatra allready redirects here, and the consciousness-only article is at least totaly unsourced, and some info sounds dubious. I also dont think one could systematically make a distinction of thinking about yogacara as a school and cittamatra as that schools philosophy; both names are usually used interchangably, and its not really clear that typical presentation of yogachara in tibetan buddhism (at least) is not just a straw-man for madyamaka, so that there ever was a real school having exactly the positions now called cittamatera/yogachara - this is mentioned in the shentong article. --Aryah 05:41, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

=== Tibetans draw a distinction between Shentong Madhyamaka and ‘mind-only’ (Cittamatra) tenets. The formers is, for all intents and purposes, the Yogacara of Asanga and Vasubandhu. This view is understood to arrive at an understanding of emptiness that is similar to Madhyamaka, whereas the latter is purported to posit a consciousness that really and truly exists. For that reason it is regarded as a lower view. Because there is that distinction, it would be inappropriate to merge the pages. Furthermore, there's not a little debate about whether or not there ever were scholars or practitioners who held the so-called 'mind-only' view of the Cittamatrans - or if instead that label wasn’t wrongly fobbed off on later Yogacarans. So, for this reason as well it would be inappropriate to merge the essays.

In addition to Waldron's book, there are also Dan Lusthaus's "Buddhist Phenomenology: A Philosophical Investigation of Yogacara Buddhism", Ian Charles Harris' "The Continuity of Madhyamaka & Yogacara in Indian Mahayana Buddhism", Stephan Anaker's "Seven Works of Vasubandhu" and Gadjin Nagao's "Madhyamaka and Yogacara" to name but a few. Also, Karl Brunnholzl's "Center of the Sunlit Sky" devotes nearly 100 pages to the development and tenets of the Yogacara system in India, the rangtong -- shentong contraversy in Tibetan Buddhism, but also the question of whether or not there ever were Cittamatrans (i.e. people who argued that mind ultimately exists), or whether that was a mis-reading of Yogacara texts. Gyatso 05:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC) Gyatso

Wow, very interesting. Thank you, Gyatso Zero sharp 05:21, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

it is true that shentong and cittamatra are not the same, and that some authors propose that shentong is just yogachara understood properly. However, this is not a typical equation - im sure many on the rangtong side at least would consider authors like vasubandhu and asangha to be cittamatra - like you say, cittamatra itself might be a straw-men for the later madhyamaka authors, and to have never even existed. That shentong might be yogachara is allready mentioned on the shentong page. Maybe then less yogachara philosophy should be presented on this page, and only an explanation of the contraversy of wheter they held a cittamatra or shentong philosophy be made here, and the cittamatra and shentong pages having those philosophies explained in more details (cittamatra page inheriting the philosophy explanations from this page)? but at least, it has to be then somehow prevented that cittamatra redirect here!!!!! Alternatively, we could merege yogachara and cittamatra, as at least a common, habitual identification (after all, the text as it stands now claims cittamatra to be the philosophy of yogachara!) , and the contraversy of whether shentong is a more correct understanding of yogachara philosophy and whether cittamatra even existed be explained as a subsection? I would preffer the latter suggestion, since it minimises the number of pages and gives the reader a clearer picture of the extent of identification of yogachara and cittamatra, while not ommiting the contraversy about it; if cittamatra and shentong are presented as equally present interpretations of yogachara philosophy, the reader might find it confusing to face the fact that yogachara and cittamatra can often be used interchangibly. Lama Gyatso, would you please comment on the cittamatra article too? there are i think even greater problems on that artice? --aryah 83.131.141.239 15:43, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

One might also note that the term "cittamatra" is not used in any of the classical Yogacara texts, except once by Vasubandhu for causa metri. The term seems to have been lifted by the Tibetans from the Lankavatarasutra, which is a late syncretic text and not a pure Yogacara text. --Stephen Hodge 01:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] fact

I tuned up the language a bit around a statement that 'It is said' that Yogacara is a preliminary path, but I cannot provide a reference. Zero sharp 06:42, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edit in section Legacy of the Yogacara

I changed 'probably' to 'perhaps' [plz see diff in history] . The statement as it was is unsourced _and_ kind of POV. I weakened it a little to try to soften the possibly POV tone, but didn't flag it as {{Fact}} because it's not a WILDLY out of joint statement. It probably would be better if it were fleshed out and sourced at some point though.

Comment welcome Zero sharp 08:36, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Potential source list to expand article

• Anacker, Stefan. Seven Works of Vasubandhu. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass. 1984.
• Beyer, Steven. The Twenty Verses by Vasubandhu with an anonymous commentary. Typescript.
• Clack, Joseph and Panish, Paul. Remarks on Vasubandhu's "Thirty Verses Proving the Doctrine of Mind Only. Typescript. 1974.
• Epstein, Ronald. Verse Delineating the Eight Consciousnesses. Typescript.
• Epstein, Ronald. Tranformation of Consciousness into Wisdom in the Chinese Consciousness-Only School according to Cheng Wei-Shr Lun. Vajra Bodhi Sea Journal. January-March, 1985.
• Epstein, Ronald. General Pathways of Discrimination/Differentiation. Chart.
• Epstein, Ronald. Interrelation of the Eight Consciousnesses. Chart.
• Epstein, Ronald. Levels of Meditation Prior to Enlightenment. Chart.
• Harvey, Peter. An Introduction to Buddhism. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. 1990.
• Huntington, C.W. The Emptiness of Emptiness. Honolulu: University of Hawaii. 1989.
• Liu, Ming-Wood. Madhyamaka thought in China. Leiden: Brill. 1994.
• Masaaki, Hattori. "Yogacara." The Encyclopedia of Religion. New York: Macmillan. 1987. Vol. 15.
• Nagao, G. M. Madhyamika and Yogacara. Trans. L. S. Kawamura. Albany: State University of New York Press. 1991.
• Sangharakshita, Bhikshu. A Survey of Buddhism. Boulder: Shambhala. 1980.
• Sutton, Florin G. Existence and Enlightenment in the Lankavatara- sutra. Albany: State University of New York Press. 1991.
• Vasubandhu. Shasta on the Door to Understanding the Hundred Dharmas. Trans. Hsuan Hua. Talmage. 1983.
• Verdu, Alfonso. The Philosophy of Buddhism: A "Totalistic" Synthesis. Boston: Martinus Nijhoff. 1981.
• Wood, Thomas. Mind Only. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass. 1994. —Preceding unsigned comment added by B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 07:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Edits to this article

I am a little concerned that, among the recent avalanche of edits by the clearly learned and (no doubt) well-meaning User:B9_hummingbird_hovering are additions and changes that are:

• un- or inadequately sourced
• original research
• unclear or otherwise un-encyclopedic in tone due to excessively idiosyncratic or overly baroque word choice

I will try to address these in due course, but as always any comments or discussion here are welcome, and in fact solicited. Thanks. Zero sharp (talk) 00:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)