Talk:Yerba mate

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Contents 1 Notes 2 Caffeine-free? 2.1 Is "Mateine" Caffeine? 2.1.1 Mateine/caffeine AUTHORITATIVE (pending verification) 2.2 Brewing Time and Caffeine Content 3 Sweet 4 Maté 4.1 Mate, do you want a maté? 5 Tea or tisane 6 Picture 6.1 Removed why? 7 Pronunciation 8 Hallucingen? 9 Death by bombilla? 10 Carcinogen 11 categorization 12 How to prepare it? 13 Drinking mate 14 Students & Mate 15 Pregnancy 16 Mate vs Yerba mate 17 Userbox 18 Minor point 19 Wikipedia Trivia? 20 History 21 Chile and Mate drinking. 22 Brazil 23 Un-funny edit" makes a point 24 Identical text to taooftea.com 25 Curing 26 On this article and the discussions in the talk page 27 Conservation issues? 28 Page move from Yerba mate to Yerba maté??? 29 Naming issues 30 stereoisomers 31 Synergize 32 Effects of combining caffeine & theobromine 33 Yerba Mate in pill form

[edit] Notes

1. Part of the revision history of this page is at (the incorrectly capitalized) Yerba Mate [1]. --Koyaanis Qatsi 13:15 Jan 18, 2003 (UTC)
2. Please add new topics and questions at the end of this page. Unless you're replying to someone, start new discussions in a new section. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 11:09, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Caffeine-free?

As KQ points out, all of the claims that mate is caffeine-free come from unreliable sources. The reference to the Florida study I found in a quote from Dr. Andrew Weil, who is about as far from a skeptic about such things as one can be and still get the M.D. If he doesn't buy the claims, then there's certainly no credibility to them, because he believes lots of "herbal/alternative medicine" things there's very little evidence for. -- Lee Daniel Crocker

How about people with first-hand experience? Would that be a reliable source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.28.145.208 (talk) 05:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is "Mateine" Caffeine?

It's been stated in several places on the web that Mateine is a stereo-isomer of Caffeine. Caffeine isn't stereo-isotopic. Simply put, Yerba Mate does contain caffeine. If you doubt this, ask anyone studying Pre-Med, or better still, ask an organic chemist at any university if Caffeine is stereo-isotopic, and you'll get an emphatic "NO". If you are trying to quit Caffeine, Yerba Mate is not an option. If you are looking for an alternative to coffee, you may find Yerba Mate beneficial. Hope this helps. Edward D.

I have to take issue with the notion that mate drinkers are duped by a placebo effect into thinking that the herb doesn't contain caffeina. I lack the creds to make a scientific case, but as a person who drinks mate all day, every day, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the effects are far, far different from coffee or tea: mate is not such an awful diuretic, nor does it keep me awake at night, nor make me jittery and impatient in a stressful workplace. Scoff all you want, but SOMETHING is different. It is patronizing to tell me that something lacking scientific proof just can't be when I know empirically that it is. It does no one justice to dissuade potential users from a substance that they might otherwise find as useful as I have. Also, "If you are trying to quit coffee, mate is not an option" is a silly statement, unless you know WHY that person wants to quit drinking coffee. In my case, I quit because coffee makes me nervous; mate does not. In my case mate was "an option" (viz. supra). If you need to quit because of some medical reason (women are often told to give up caffeine because of tumors, for example) the statement may or may not be true. If you want to ask a pre-med student (as suggested above) why not ask an Argentine pre-med student if s/he could possibly study without mate. Good science is never so dogmatic.

Ken D.

A typical intake of mate does contain caffeine, my mate, but far less so than either espresso, "black" coffee, or instant coffee. Maybe on a level with green tea. Doesn't it explain it all? Also, I never heard any serious person refer seriously to the stereoisomer issue (even though I did hear from medicinal chemists that if such an isomer existed, it could have properties far removed from those of caffeine... which is entirely speculative). elpincha 21:48, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

With all due respect to the steroisomer discussion, which looks like it isn't due much, what's more interesting is that in addition to caffeine/mateine mate contains theobromine (an alkaloid found in chocolate whcih is supposed to contribute to its supposed euphoric effect,) and theophylline, which, like caffeine, is a phosphodiesterase inhibitor but has different pharmacology. Maybe we could shift our interest to these other compounds of known psychoactivity. Nick N.

[edit] Mateine/caffeine AUTHORITATIVE (pending verification)

Regarding the mateine/caffeine confusion, I have often been quoted as the source for that mistake. The original article that contained that informaiton was first produced as a draft that was supposed to have been validated before publication. Unfortunately, it was published by a distributor of yerba mate in a pamphlet before I was able to verify the veracity Dr. Martin's statement (I have his quote in a letter, so his denial of that quote is in error). My first guess as to what would differentiate mateine from caffeine was that they must be stereoisomers; I have repeatedly rescinded that opinion once I learned of the impossiblity of this arrangement. It was meant to be a minor point in my monograph, one that would have been immediately discarded if it had not been prematurely published for all the world to see (which popularity, by the way, I find outrageous). Having admitted my chemical error, however, I am more convinced today than ever, that the physiological and nutritional activity of mate is very different than those provided by coffee, gurana and kola nut. The healthful benefits of mate far outweigh any activity traceable to caffeine alone, and may, as I originally implied, be related to the particular constellation of xanthines and other nutrients found in mate.

Sincerely,

Daniel Mowrey, Ph.D—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.20.238.130 (talk • contribs) 19:58, May 11, 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brewing Time and Caffeine Content

It states in this article:

However, the net amount of caffeine in one preparation of yerba mate is typically quite high, in large part because the repeated filling of the mate with hot water is able to extract the highly-soluble xanthines extremely effectively. It is for this reason that one mate may be shared among several people and yet produce the desired stimulating effect in all of them.

But, according to my understanding, the high water solubility of caffeine (and other xanthines, I suppose) means that extended and repeated brewing does little to extract additional caffeine. Upton Tea Import's information on decaffeinated tea says the following:

Decaffeinating Your Own Tea
Caffeine is highly water soluble, and nearly 80% of the total caffeine content of the tea leaves will be extracted within the first 30 seconds of steeping. If you wish to "decaffeinate" your own tea, the process is simple. Pour boiling water over the tea leaves, and allow a maximum of a 30 second rinse. Empty this water off, and pour fresh boiling water over the rinsed leaves to brew for the prescribed time.

http://www.uptontea.com/shopcart/information/INFOdecaffeination.asp

Although this was about tea, not yerba mate, I think we can assuming all plant materials lose their caffeine roughly equivalently... It sounds to me like the article's statement cannot be true -- either the xanthines are highly soluble and repeated filling & brewing extracts very little additional, or they are not highly soluble and repeated filling & brewing extracts significant additional amounts. --Madprime 01:57, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

FWIW...you never drink mate with boiling water :-) OTOH the very first serving tastes awful, so it is customary to spit it out or, if you are in a more distinguished company, to be drank by the cebador, so the first mate is never passed around. It is said that tannin is responsible for the initial taste, but I have no sources but folklore. User:Ejrrjs says What? 10:53, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sweet

Deal or No Deal Humbly,

Speaking as a decidedly non-expert, anglo-North American, I thought the consenus was that sugar should not be added. I have drunk maté for several years, but I have never used sugar myself.

Also, might not the traditional ritual of passing the the gourd be mentioned? I always felt it was an interesting aspect of the whole thing. Silly, I suppose... Sjfloat 14:57 26 May 2003 (UTC)

Mate can take sugar. At least in Argentina, where I live, many people prefer to add sugar to it and it's known as "mate dulce" (sweet mate). Pilaf 03:39, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Here in Brazil, however, adding sugar to Mate is almost a blasphemy... --k

It's also bad practice in Argentina. Usually for children, when they are still not used to the bitter taste. -Mariano 07:17, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)

There seems to be some regional variation as well; in central Argentina I (another U.S. mate drinker) have often been served it "dulce", while friends in Buenos Aires (who almost universally drink it unsweetened) converted me to "amargo" afterwards. --c

True. In Santiago del Estero and sorrounding provinces the "mate dulce" is more popular than "amargo". --Lacrymology 11:15, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

More anecdotal evidence: My mother drinks it sweetened (albeit with artificial sweetener, but whatever), but my dad drinks it amargo. I have always been taught that my mom's version is unorthodox. Stale Fries ^{taste better} 05:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Mate not Maté - the accent in Spanish is for pronounciation emphasis, but in Spanis it is 'ma-te' not 'mat-E' so Maté is incorrect in spelling and pronounciation. The Maté use is a marketing ploy so the English speaking consumer knows the product is from South America.

[edit] Maté

As all people that wrote in here, I have to say that "mate" is the only right way to write it and the only right way to say it since spanish pioneers were the first to give a written language to south-american natives. It doesn't matter the language (Spanish, English, French, etc) used to refer to the plant....it should be kept as the original and only pronunciation...besides it is not a spanish word...is a native one. Thank you and if somebody from Oxford dictionary is reading, you will be doing a favour to the english speakers if you change and mention how words originally from other languages are pronounced instead of trying to give them and english way of saying it. Vicente, from Paraguay. 15:34, 5 July 2007

Mate not Maté - the accent in Spanish is for pronounciation emphasis, but in Spanish it is 'ma-te' not 'mat-E' so Maté is incorrect in spelling and pronounciation. The Maté use is a marketing ploy so the English speaking consumer knows the product is from South America. --Miyerbamate 16:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Should it not be maté? And what does powerous mean?
S.

-No, it's right, mate.--El Chemaniaco 17:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Why is mate spelled maté here? I've never seen it spelled this way before. I believe the right way of doing it is just as "mate", with a plain E. Pilaf 03:39, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)

That's how I've always seen it spelled, too. It's not pronounced with the accent, so why is it spelled that way here? Theanthrope 21:01, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Well, maybe it's not the best source for spanish words, but my Oxford English Dictionary shows it as "maté", and that is how I have always heard it pronounced, but if that is not correct, it should be changed, as long as there is sufficient explanation so no-one just changes it back. BTW, there are 9,750 google hits for "yerba maté", 71,000 for "yerba mate", so it looks like both are in common use, though "mate" has a clear edge. WormRunner 18:06, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I've been bold and moved the page back to "yerba mate". I am 100% sure this is right, and I don't know why the Oxford dictionary spells is as "maté", but I can asure that's completely wrong. In fact, the word "maté" (as oposed to just "mate", which has a different pronounciation) means "i killed" in Spanish and would sound strange used as another common word. I also saw it spelled as "máte" somewhere. That's even a worse case, as it's an outright spelling mistake. Pilaf 02:48, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

According to Merriam-Webster Online, maté is the French spelling. Ejrrjs | What? 16:34, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The added accent in English, I imagine, is an attempt to distinguish it from the English one-syllable word "mate". That said, it's misleading anyhow since it can imply the emphasis on the last syllable. "Mate" with consistent italics is probably the best, most correct approach. --c

The correct spelling is "mate", not "maté". The final plain "e" is used among us (Argentina y Uruguay) as in Paraguay and south Brazil, and as a native argentinian I've never ever seen "maté" writed or spoked.

The accent is only used for the benefit of English speakers. Spanish vowels are pronounced differently than their English counterparts. The word "mate" in English is pronounced with a long "A" sound. In Spanish, "mate" (the "A") is pronounced with an "Ahhh".

[edit] Mate, do you want a maté?

I can't believe that the meaning is not obvious from the context. User:Ejrrjs says What? 19:59, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

According to the " Pequeño Larousse Ilustrado" 35th edition {1948;} mate without the accent is the correct Spanish spelling. This can be confirmed in the Real Academia Española dictionary online at http://www.rae.es/. You will not find the word maté in any Spanish dictionary as they contain only the infinitive forms of verbs. Maté in Spanish means, "I killed" Having said this the ‘e’ is always pronounced in Spanish, it sounds "eh" however the accentuation stresses the ‘a’; thus it sounds máteh Yerba Mate is indigenous to South America, as such is the case I would argue the most correct pronunciation and spelling would be that of the Spanish language. jamesjaw

I don't think the Spanish spelling is disputed. The question is how it is spelt in English: does it keep the Spanish spelling or not? The dictionaries say "maté", but very few American people seem to use it. Han-Kwang 07:57, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Are Oxford scholars immune against stupidity? I guess not. To write Maté against the writing and pronunciation customs and traditions of several countries like Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Brazil, etc. where a sizeable portion of the population drink Yerba Mate on a daily basis, is sheer stupidity. "Maté" simply does not exist, period. I know: I've been there, and have drank mate often. The common name is sufficiently explained in this very article:

The word hierba is Spanish for grass or herb; yerba is a variant spelling of it which is quite common... ...Mate is from the Quechua mati, meaning "cup". Yerba mate is therefore literally the "cup herb".

The scientific name is ilex paraguariensis., meaning Paraguay, not Ilex Oxfordiensis (see the corresponding articles in the Spanish Wikipedia if still in doubt: Yerba Mate and Mate).

No ignorant Briton, Oxford "scholar" or not, is going to change the way we South Americans call our traditional infusion. I've removed the tag. This discussion is simply ludicrous, and utter nonsense. --AVM 18:44, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I've said it before, but it is very common that the spelling of foreign words is adapted to the local spelling. I live in Netherlands, but sometimes we call our country "Holland". To write Holanda against the centuries-old tradition of several countries like Netherlands and Belgium is sheer stupidity. Holanda does not exist, period. I know: I live there and I use the word very often. No ignorant South-American, "scholar" or not, is going to change the way we Dutch call our country. I will edit the Spanish wikipedia page accordingly. Han-Kwang 19:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I fully agree! Whoever (Latin American or not) tried to call "Holanda" that admirable country, Nederland, (or perhaps should I say the Koninkrijk der Nederlanden?) and tried to impose that foreign name upon the natives (the Dutch), deserves a good spanking, and I'd gladly help you administer it to the culprit. But you are missing the point there. Holanda is a valid name for your country in the Spanish language, just as Italy amd Italien are valid names in English and German for the country that calls itself Italia. What the idiot who wrote that entry into the Oxford Dictionary, and his colleagues (who try to impose such absurdity against the natives of several countries who seed, grow, harvest, pack, deliver, buy, simmer, drink, and enjoy Yerba Mate) are doing is something worse, which is to invent a totally alien word that has never been heard in those lands, nor used anywhere on Earth: "maté", purporting that is the way we South Americans write and pronounce it. Aangenaam, --AVM 23:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't get what you're saying. The Oxford people recommend 'maté' not to natives of Latin America, but to English-speaking Britons and North-Americans. Han-Kwang 23:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I'll put it simple enough. They're wrong, that's all. --AVM 06:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tea or tisane

Minor terminology question... should we refer to Tea or Tisane/Herbal tea? - Logotu

I guess that all three are correct, and infusion too. However, probably tea is misleading, as it refers more specifically to an infusion made from Camellia sinensis or its relatives within the Theaceae family. It should be noted that infusions are the primaty method of administering most medicinal herbs. Regards, --AVM 13:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Doesn't anyone have a picture of the plant?

[edit] Removed why?

Why was the picture removed? I didn't think it was off topic at all. Theanthrope 17:57, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Yeah same for me and the new pictures is very small Chmouel Boudjnah 23:30, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I thought it was an extremely ugly, amateurish photo. We can do better than that. -- Viajero 12:13, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Have converted this to my best reckoning, /jE@b{ ma:teI/. The replaced entry claimed it was pronounced /jE@bVh m{hteI/, which seems highly improbable

Shouldn't we defer to a native speaker for this? "Improbable" seems a poor reason to change the stated pronunciation of a spanish word. WormRunner | Talk 00:53, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Agreed we need a fluent Spanish speaker. I'm far from perfect, but do know enough to know the claimed pronunciation that I took out was hopelessly wrong; it was actually preposterous in any language, not just Spanish. - MPF 17:51, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I used to drink the stuff and knew a fellow who had been in Paraguay for some time, who pronounced it "MAH-tay". The word means "death" (matar=to kill) and the pronunciation is standard phonetic Spanish. The word "yerba" I see only on packages of the stuff, though it may be a common part of the name in parts of Mexico and Argentina where the stuff is also popular. I don't know how to read the SAMPA pronunciations, so I can't tell whether they are right or not. UninvitedCompany 17:58, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

With that aspiration at the end of the first syllable?? Cr*p! Makes it sound like a sort of bronchitic wheeze, not a proper word. Trying to say that would give me a bad sore throat, and doesn't sound like any Spanish I've ever heard.
To read the SAMPA, check on the SAMPA page linked, they're quite straightforward. - MPF 18:31, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The stress is definitely on the first syllable, "MA-te". I'm more familiar with IPA than SAMPA, but I would render it as /ma:'tE/. I'm a native speaker. Spanish was my first language, though I've lost some living in the US. My father is Argentine and I grew up drinking that stuff. I've heard my senile grandfather in Buenos Aires yell at my grandmother "hace mate!" until it seemed like the only thing he could say. That is to say, I'm familiar with the word. The word mate is the same as the first, second, and third person singular conjunctive conjugation of the verb "matar" but it doesn't *mean* the same thing. Theanthrope 18:35, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Thanks Theanthrope; would you like to edit the main article accordingly? - be good to have it done properly, so it isn't "maHutay" the way it was before - MPF 18:45, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I'm gonna go ahead and switch it over to maté, in title and content. That spelling is definitely the one I've always seen as correct, and it matches the correct pronounciation. I think the commonality of "mate" is simply because the é character is uncommon on western keyboards, or even in western handwriting, and the significance of the accent is downplayed by those who are too lazy to run charmap.exe. - posted by SeekerOfWisdumb at 09:00, 08 Mar 2005 (UTC)

According to both Merriam Webster online, and Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language offline both spellings and both pronounciations are rigth. However, in the languages (Spanish, Portuguese and Guarani) of the people that drink the stuff maté does not make any sense. I strongly suggest to respect the original spelling. BTW, maté is the French word. Ejrrjs | What? 22:06, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

- "That spelling (...) matches the correct pronounciation." - No, it does not. At least not the correct spanish pronunciation.

- "the é character is uncommon on western keyboards" There are no "western keyboards". There are spanish keyboars, french keyboards, german keyboards. etc. And with all of them it's possible to write an "é" . Without need to run any charmap.

- "the é character is uncommon (...) in western handwriting" - It is not. At least not in romance languages, spoken by about 700 millions of persons. Or does your concept of "western" exclude them?

--Zitronfalda

The correct spelling (and pronunciation) is Yerba Mate. "Maté" simply does not exist, period. --AVM 06:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi. in Argentina the pronounciation would be closer to SHAIR-ba MAH-tay. In Argentina y and ll are (usually) pronounced as english sh or the s in pleasure, it is called yeísmo

That "sh" sound is only for a Rioplantense accent, as the article says. Otherwise, that is an accurate pronunciation. Stale Fries ^{taste better} 05:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

basic spanish: "maté" is the first-person (singular) past tense of the verb "matar" --to kill. "mate" refers to the herb (or, as a previous poster said, the first and third-person conjunctive tense of the verb --se above). the acute accent changes the pronunciation as well as the meaning. "maté" is pronounced "maTEH" whereas "mate" is pronounced "MAteh". referring to the herb as "maté" is incorrect. given that the mate-drinking custom originated in (the southern part of) south america, it seems logical that the original (and correct) spelling be respected --at least until a suitable translation into english is found, if ever. (the only reason why i can think the word is grossly mispelled in most of the united states is because "mate" means an entirely different thing in english, and shop keepers want to avoid potential embarrasment from selling customers a mate.) august 2005.

Perhaps the same effect could be achieved if they wrote "matte". --AVM 06:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hallucingen?

I'm kind of doubtful of this new section. I've had mate for years, and I've never seen cobras, nor has my father seen spiders, nor my grandmother dancing demons. Theanthrope 22:01, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

OK, so what have you seen? --Jerome Potts 18:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death by bombilla?

Some years back, I read a story about a South American politican who was killed while drinking a mate and driving. Supposedly, he hit a bump, and the bombilla was driven up through his soft palate and into his brain. Now I can't find the story anywhere. I've Googled any number of terms to no success. Does this ring a bell for anyone? --206.136.148.148 18:34, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It doesn't ring a bell, an probably doesn't belong in the article, but it does provide a good moral: Don't drink and drive :) Theanthrope 18:41, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I was told by an Israeli doctor who was serving as a latin american Ambassador that this type of injury was common in Uruguay; the bombilla would penetrate into their mouth during a car accident. I disbelieved and chuckled, but he informed me that it was common and serious (Jon Esslinger).69.171.33.191 03:14, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Exactly; many buses here (Uruguay) have, among the warnings of not descending while the bus is moving and such, the warning that you should not drink mate on the bus. A sudden stop will cause the bombilla to hurt your mouth. The warning is disregarded with impunity, and bus drivers let Darwin enforce it.200.40.97.142 17:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Carcinogen

I just searched Pub Med for Yerba Mate found an article stating that "Ardisia and mate teas may thus share a public health potential as chemopreventive agents" So not Sure I buy the carcinogen bit..

Here's a link to the Abstract..

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15450404 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11213015&dopt=Abstract http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/104524990/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

My understanding was that the higher risk of esophageal cancer was related to drinking scalding-hot beverages, regardless of whether it's yerba mate or tea or coffee? (sorry, can't find a cite right now) -- Logotu 16:22, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Please note that in order to have a decent mate water should not boil ; otherwise the yerba becomes "washed" (mate lavado). The appropriate temperature is around 70 ºC. Ejrrjs | What? 21:40, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] categorization

ejrrjs- Maté contains caffeine; furthermore, it is used as a stimulant like coffee, tea, coca tea, and so on. That clearly puts it into the Herbal & fungal drugs/medicines category. People don't just drink it for the taste, (although it is delicious!); they drink it for its other properties as well. my assumption is that you are reacting the negative connotation of "drug", which is understandable, but the category is "herbal and fungal drugs/medicines", which range from chamomile tea to coffee to ayahuasca/jage. the category is pretty heavy right now on the "drugs" with less of the "medicines", but this is temporary; healing poultices, psychoactives, and mild stimulants all have places there, as do st john's wort and a million other things. I've put maté back into the category, for all of the above reasons.Heah 17:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the fact they are looking at the negative connatation of 'drug' its herbal/medicinal and as we all know most drugs and many that are effective derive from plants etc. Does any body know if this has any effect on weight loss ? as this is also a stimulant. It is definately herbal/medicinal. Another one that should be added with st. john's wort is Gention Violets, works wonders. (86.138.68.15 10:31, 5 July 2007 (UTC)) 5th July 2007

[edit] How to prepare it?

How many litres of drink can be done with 1kg of Yerba Mate?

I've added a comprehensive (though somewhat hastily-written) guide to how mate is traditionally prepared with a gourd and bombilla, as well as adding an excellent resource on the same to the External Links (among a couple other relevant links). My sense is that such discussion should likely be separated from the discussion of mate paraphernalia, but unfortunately I'm off to bed and am unable to take any further time to pry apart those two very intertwined items.

What are your thoughts about splitting the "Mate drinking" section into two, so as to separate any sort of procedural guide from discussion of mate's more tangible elements? - SeekerOfWisdumb 4.26.2005-14:20GMT

[edit] Drinking mate

I subdivided the Drinking mate section. It might be a bit overdivided now, but I felt the original was way too long, and less subdivition was unconsistent. I also added some paragraphs to that section that I would like to have revised for style--Lacrymology 08:18:14, 2005-08-04 (UTC)

I recently got a gourd and mate as a present and I tried to find out how I'm supposed to drink it exactly. To be honest, the description in this section is incomprehensible to me. Descriptive words such as 'slope', 'mound', 'flat top', 'side-to-side' (can mean two things when the gourd isn't upright) are quite ambiguous. This problem is unfortunately shared by other web sites on mate drinking (I even had a Brazilian colleague check out Portuguese sites for me). A picture would say more than a thousand words here. Is there any experienced mate drinker with a digital camera?

Han-Kwang 12:01, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hum, I'll give it a try, but I have to warn you; my method has always been criticized. After all, in the worse case the you will have to change the yerba more often than if done properly. It won't taste any different if you just put the herbs, the straw, and pour the water. (If you quote me on this I will definitely deny the accusations) Mariano(t/c) 12:13, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

200.40.97.142 17:35, 8 February 2007 (UTC)== Terere ==

I think the material on terere should be extended, or even (if enaugh can be put together) a separate article should be created.--Lacrymology 08:21:06, 2005-08-04 (UTC)

Above, someone says that adding sugar to mate is "bad practice" in Argentina. This is false. It is true that in the capital, Buenos Aires, mate is generally taken straight, but in the interior of the country (Córdoba, for example) it is common to add sugar and "yuyitos" (herbs) for medicinal and flavor effect. The author of the comment above is probably a "porteño" (resident of Buenos Aires). glasperlenspiel 06:59, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

In Uruguay sugared and/or spiced mate is considered something an old woman would drink. For us, mate should be drinked hot and without additives. 200.40.97.142 17:35, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Students & Mate

This article is truly great; as an argentinian I´m amazed that such a complete essay on mate could appear on Wikipedia :). However, I have one minor correction:

"University students in South America have reported to be unable to study unless they are drinking mate, and furthermore, that studying is sometimes just an excuse for drinking it."

I find this very doubtful. Unless some scientific/statistic evidence is provided, I w/uld regard this as hearsay. I´m a student at university and I´ve never seen people "unable to study" unless they have mate. It is the practical equivalent of someone not being able to study without coffee, which is a sign of addictive behaviour. Not common at all from my experience. But again, someone correct me if there´s any scientific evidence of this (a poll of some sorts).

I'd say that's correct of you to point this out. The problem, of course, is that I don't expect anything about mate to be very well sourced. I've known many people who found it difficult to study at night without drinking either coffee or mate, but "being unable to study without mate" is an exaggeration. The usual thing is: one student says to the rest, "I'm bored and I'm getting asleep. Why don't you make some mate?". Some other says "OK", heats the water and everybody takes a little break, and then the mate is passed around while the studying continues. Nothing terribly ritualistic or addict-like. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 21:54, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pregnancy

I can't find any information on drinking mate while pregnant on this page. Do pregnant women avoid drinking mate in South American countries? There are many many cautions against it on the web but I can't tell if it's commercial CYA (mainly from using it as a supplement), allopathic misinformation and alarmism or based on the shared experience of traditional societies or longstanding tradition. Also info about possible risks (if any) to nursing mothers and their infants would be helpful. Thanks.

I'm afraid that Wikipedia is not the best place to get medical advise, and I'm not qualified either, so I will not try to answer.

On a lighter side, let me say this: for want of yerba some women DID get pregnant. Ejrrjs | What? 06:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mate vs Yerba mate

This article is too long. I am wondering if we should leve the shrub alone and move the drink and drinking issues to Mate (beverage). Ejrrjs | What? 06:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Belatedly reading this... Yes, I'd like to have that too. Simply put, people don't drink yerba mate, they drink mate. The infusion and the culture around it is one thing, and the plant species is a different thing. Helps with the size, too. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 16:00, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree --El Chemaniaco 17:36, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Pretty much like Tango music and Tango (dance), Mate and Yerba mate should be two different articles. Mariano(t/c) 07:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

'Tis done. There is still some content in this article that might be moved to Mate (beverage) or partially shared. I think this one should additionally mention chimarrão and tereré in a more prominent place. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 11:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Nice job, Pablo. I will work on Mate (beverage), to bear more in mind chimarrão amd tereré as I said in this discussion page, in "Brazil" topic; also add some links to it as well as to Mate (disambiguation page). --El Chemaniaco 16:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Userbox

I have just created User:UBX/mate for use in babel on user pages. --WAvegetarian ^(talk) (email) ^(contribs) 08:56, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Minor point

Since in Spanish the noun always precedes the adjective, the literal translation for "yerba mate" would not be "herb cup" but "cup herb", which would probably make more sense anyway.

So I fixed it.

[edit] Wikipedia Trivia?

Is the Wikipede holding a mate? -- Logotu 18:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but the bombilla is pointing the wrong way, unless it is passing the mate over to somebody else. User:Ejrrjs says What? 19:30, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

If my memory serves me correctly, mate was originaly drunk among cowboys and/or labourers coming from Uruguay? to work in Argentina. It has long been associated with th gaucho culture (which would explain why the gourds are traditionaly made from bull scrotums). This should be included in the article, no? Sfacets 04:04, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

• It was discovered by guaraníes before Spaniards came
• It was developed by Jesuits
• There was no cattle (or bombillas, for that matter) before the european brought them
• Guacho is a "bad word".
• yes, some gourds are covered (not made from) by calves skin and it is a typical Uruguayan craft. A `photo would be nice.

User:Ejrrjs says What? 07:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I wrote Gaucho, not guacho ;) ... gauchos still hold an important part in the culture of mate, spreading the custom from place to place as they travelled with their herds. There are many gourds made from leather, and this is not reserved to Uruguyan craft, but is also present in many s. american countries.

Sfacets 09:16, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chile and Mate drinking.

I'm Chilean and a regular mate drinking, yes I'm from magallanes. Anyway, I don't think that drinking yerba mate in Chiloé and Magallanes in just because of Argentinian influence as it's stated in the article. It's better to say that it is something that has been lost in other regions of Chile (anyways in Araucanía, Los Lagos and other rural zones of chile it is still popular). In colonial times it was a costume much more widespread.

DaniloVilicic

[edit] Brazil

I find that the article almost exclude Brazilian mate drinking - which is exatly the same, but, for example, with different names. I added a link to Chimarrão a page that is exaclty the opposite: deliberatly ignores Argentine/Uruguayan/Paraguayan mate. I am suggesting to make this page reasonably regard all national versions, adding for example Brazilian name of bomba along with bombilla, and then even delete the other. I will soon start any corrections I find necessary, and any help is wanted.

--El Chemaniaco 17:33, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Un-funny edit" makes a point

A recent edit by an anonymous user changing "friends" into "mates" underlines why it would be a good idea to include a pronunciation guide... thoughts? Sfacets 10:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... there's a whole paragraph devoted to explaining the pronunciation of yerba mate. It's IPA, of course, as per WP:PRON, which also states that pronunciation transcriptions based on traditional English spelling are discouraged. The article explicitly mentions that the original language is Spanish, so that the reader will be less tempted to read the word mate as if it were English. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 13:54, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Identical text to taooftea.com

I don't know whether this article plagiarizes The Tao of Tea or vice versa, but some of the text in this article matches http://www.taooftea.com/shop11-Yerba_Mate.html word for word. For example, the section starting "From reports of personal experience with mate ..." and continuing through "... and a stimulating effect on myocardial (heart) tissue" is identical in both pages. No attribution is given on either page to cite the other.

[edit] Curing

i think that curing the mate is a very important topic —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.255.71.92 (talk • contribs) 28 Sep 2006

[edit] On this article and the discussions in the talk page

Well as a person who spent his early life among old mate drinkers,I simply desire to point put that the now very extended habit of sweetening the mate with sugar has a similar story to that of cofee. Although I d hardly call myself an expert it is well known that seasoned drinkers point out that the sugar would actually kill the flavor of a quality made coffee,so it happens with Mate. Also,mate in Buenos Aires only became popular again not too many years ago (say perhaps 7 or 9),causing unexperienced people(mainly youngsters and teens) who not only lacked the knowledge of how to properly heat the water but were also rather unaccostumed to the sour and acid flavour of mate.In the end they "covered" the flavor with sugar. I still remember back in secondary on an outing with people from the school,they had brought termos and yerba to make mate,not only did they boil the water and added too much sugar but they also didnt know when the yerba got "lavada" ("washed",that is,it means it has lost flavor and the mate has to be cleansed and refilled).The same situation has happened and still happens a lot to me. Now why would I tell you a little boring tale from my teenhood?I found out many anglo-americans&brits (and even other european people) have "learned" or "met" mate through people such as the ones I mentioned,and so carry a misconception of how this concoction is properly fashioned.

On a final note,I noticed at the initial part of the article saying the waters is boiled and then mixed with fresh/cold water to get the right temperature. I could be wrong,but far as experience tells me (and believe me,I drink a lot) this is done as a "fix" when the water has boiled and one doesnt wants to go over the whole process of refilling and heating the kettle again. At least from what I've seen the proper temperature is at "primer herbor" ("first boil"),roughly a short fraction of time before the water starts boiling. I don t feel yet with the intellectual authority to modify this article so I ask of you to ponder this post.

ºP.S.:This has probably been said before but there are some differences in the way wich argentines in general (although the "litoraleños",for obvious geographical and cultural reasons do it in a very similar fashion to the neighboruing countries) prepare and even produce the mate in comparison to uruguayans and paraguayans(brazilians as well I suppose) Paraguayans are known to add and/or mix it with Tererè Uruguayans produce the yerba in a different way,rhe resulting product being a somewhat more grinded variation

El Gostro 05:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

On your comment that "mate in Buenos Aires only became popular again not too many years ago (say perhaps 7 or 9)", I couldn't disagree more. Drinking mate is a very old costum all over Argentina, also in Buenos Aires. Secondly, this article is about the Yerba itself. For the drink, see Mate (beverage). Mariano(t/c) 08:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Ooops!My apologies. And on the fact that it is an old custom I agree and that is why I cited "in Buenos Aires",back in the nineties most of the kids got into mate as a novelty,a thing that usually happens to groups attempting to revive or adapt to old customs. In any event should I move this post to the proper talk page? El Gostro 21:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there was a rupture between the drinking costum of out parents and ours, that's why I said it didn't "only became popular again"; it never stopped being. You can try the raising the curing the mate topic for the mate (beverage) article. Mariano(t/c) 07:41, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Conservation issues?

Although the conservation box lists yerba mate as being near threatened, there is no mention of conservation issues or threats in the article. Does anyone know anything about this? Is it overharvested in the wild? Does the near threatened apply only to wild populations, or does it include cultivated plants? ThanksJustinleif 20:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page move from Yerba mate to Yerba maté???

All the major sources are agreed that the correct English spelling carries an acute accent. This article has been renamed from Yerba mate to Yerba maté as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 19:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, but there was no concensus whatsoever to move the page, why did you move it and closed the discussion??? BTW, All mejor sources recognice Yerba mate as the most common spelling. --Mariano(t/c) 19:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Hypercorrection. User:Ejrrjs says What? 22:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Not only was the page moved without consensus, now any comment on the moving is happily ignored. I really feel like reverting the unjustified move. --Mariano(t/c) 18:50, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Agree; I will move back. Improper close of ongoing discussion, unilateral move, and questionable statement that some votes by editors in good standing "should not count". I am perfectly willing to see the article at either title if there is consensus, but clearly there was not for the move made. -- Infrogmation 02:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

The "questionable" statement was clearly stated as being my opinion. I understand that you don't like it because it applies to your vote, but I don't think the correctness of maté in English is disputed anymore. The question is, again, whether common usage or academically correct should be reflected. Like articles on The Hague (Den Haag), Germany (Deutschland), Netherlands (Nederland), tea (tê, chá), yoghurt (yoğurt), and so on, the spelling in the language the word comes from is not relevant in itself on English Wikipedia. Regarding the {{fact}} tag on "common usage" in the current version: I base it on googling for English pages containing either spelling: [2]. Among the first 100 hits, there are 11 with the spelling maté, of which the first one was the moved wikipedia article. There are about 6 more in the next 200 hits. Han-Kwang 09:55, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naming issues

From a latecomer, some thoughts:

The motivation for use of the "é" rather than a plain "e" appears to be due to a perception that without the indicator, typical English speakers would pronounce the term improperly - ie. in a way which is uncommon, (!) or in a way which conforms to the way "mate" is pronounced in another context. There is plenty of variance in the way English vowels are pronounced, with British and American pronunciation providing some intrinsic (but not official) guidance. The term "Yerba mate" is from Spanish and Quechua (nice explanation here). The word "yerba" itself is spelled in a way which is inconsistent with most Spanish usage (see Y#Spanish) and appears to be borrowed spelling from English usage. Genuine native language purists could argue that it should be spelled hierba mate rather than yerba mate. But English spelling conventions don't conform to Spanish rules.

Nor do they conform to English "authorities". Spelling is a convention based on custom. There is little chance that someone who is familiar with the term will pronounce it incorrectly. So what are those who want the accented spelling complaining about? There is in fact a convention in English which dismisses the usage of accents and other non-standard characters in favor of plain spelling. What is lost in precise pronunciation is made up for in ease of spelling - hence more consistent spelling. The major influence for the use of accents in English appears to come by way of French, not Spanish. In either case, the acceptance of the "native" spelling is largely dealt with by the simplest-spelling rule. Anything else is a matter of taste - for which all argument is practically pointless.

In addition, I don't think the accent helps pronunciation at all - in fact I think its more confusing because the accent in English is used largely to indicate stress and intonation, not the proper vowel sound - "ma-te" is neither pronounced as "MA-te" nor as "ma-TE", but the accent on the e would suggest the latter. Compare with "máte" 0- which seems to indicates a sound closer to the proper one. The point of diacritics is to be of help - it doesnt serve its apparent intended purpose here. This is to say nothing of the problem of inconsistency accross languages as to the usage of diacritics - they are special to the language and often not transferable. (This is not the only case where Frenchies seem to want to assert Frenchified spelling - Talk:Langues d'oïl).

The other motivation is claimed consistency with defacto language authorities like Oxford's. Because spelling is largely a matter of convention - or choices between conventions - Wikipedia defers to our own policy - not to Oxford's. -Stevertigo 21:06, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

It says here on my box of the stuff "Yerba Maté"; but I bought it at a health food store and it's probably not definitive. (Midwestern United States health food stores tend to have less-than-accurate nomenclature). On the other hand, the people at the store (and everyone I know)pronounce it MAH-te which is definitely not accurately represented by transcribing it Maté. Since the majority of self-proclaimed Argentinians and Uruguayans commenting here are saying "mate" and it's not pronounced with the accent, I'd say stick with mate. CredoFromStart ^talk 19:19, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it is pronounced MA-te which would make maté inaccurate. Besides, if a label at a health store says maté, it's probably incorrect (we can't cite labels lol). So I know mate (no "é") is correct. In the case of people who say it should be written as in English, this is just one of those words that hasn't been around that long in English as to have an English word for it. Stick with the Spanish version. Slartibartfast1992 01:30, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Why not use "Ilex paraguariensis"? Dantadd 22:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Nobody just talks to you while having tea and says "Hey, want a cup of Ilex Paraguariensis juice (mate)?" or "Did you fetch the Ilex Paraguariensis?". It would be completely awkward to use a scientific term in place of the name commonly used by people. Slartibartfast1992 22:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

• Keep the title Yerba Mate. "Maté" is an appropriate variant in French for many reasons, but not in English. As for the widespread and incorrect usage among English speakers, make a redirection page from Yerba Maté. --Targeman 14:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

• • Keep. Maté is inappropriate also in French. It is a wrong solution to the pronunciation problem. I am quite unpleasantly surprised that this obviously bogus dispute even made its way to the page itself. elpincha 19:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

• • • The heavy-hitting references like the dictionaries have it as Maté though. Therefore putting it without the accent is WP:OR. I'm not sure I agree with it, but they're the experts and the wikipedia cannot and should not go its own way on these things.WolfKeeper 20:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] stereoisomers

I reverted this addition:

Though apparantly not proven, it is possible, through three of the stereoactive nitrogen centers for caffeine to have up to 8 stereoisomers, much as in the simple case of ephedrine and pseudoephidrine [3].

The reference actually explains:

... However, pyramidal nitrogen is normally not configurationally stable. It rapidly inverts its configuration (equilibrium arrows) [...] In any event, nitrogen groups such as this, if present in a compound, do not contribute to isolable stereoisomers.

Han-Kwang (t) 15:29, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Synergize

Last I checked "synergize" was not a bio-chemical reaction, I think this should be changed to something more precise (and has an actual meaning outside the marketing world, where it still doesn't really have a meaning). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.230.8.143 (talk) 13:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Synergy has meaning:

• Main Entry: syn·er·gy Pronunciation: 'si-n&r-jE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -gies Etymology: New Latin synergia, from Greek synergos working together
• 1 : SYNERGISM; broadly : combined action or operation
• 2 : a mutually advantageous conjunction or compatibility of distinct business participants or elements (as resources or efforts)

synergyze seems to be a marketting term, from the many web sites that use the term.

Jclerman 14:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Effects of combining caffeine & theobromine

The current article reads:

"Mate contains both caffeine and theobromine (which antagonize adenosine receptors) and reduces the body production of adenosine in the blood (prolongs half life of ATP, ADP, and AMP). These two processes will synergize to provide a much cleaner stimulation than a simple dose of caffeine (only blocking adenosine receptors)."

What does "cleaner stimulation" mean? Is the stimulation more effective? Does the stimulation not cause as much jitteriness/jumpiness/twitchiness/whatever you want to call it? —a thing 20:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yerba Mate in pill form

I've been looking around online for potential downsides of Mate in pill form(specific), but I can't seem to find anything. The reason for this is due to my belief that in tea form the Mate would get absorbed much faster into the body (blood vessels in the mouth and being a liquid). So I'm thinking this might be a increased affect on oral cancer and neck cancer and the list. Absorption rates and potential intestinal problems is what is on my mind should solid Mate enter the body.Trancor (talk) 02:17, 23 May 2008 (UTC)