Talk:Women and Mormonism

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[edit] The introduction

Hi COGDEN. My wife is annoyed with the intro on this article with its emphasis on polygyny/polygamy while neglecting influence of women on the Church. She also doesn't like how the intro implies that early Mormons were not Victorians. She would like your wife to help you write this article...LOL. B 00:42, Apr 21, 2004 (UTC)

My wife thinks I'm insane for writing Wikipedia articles. I agree the intro needs some work--it's going to take a lot of work to get this one NPOV and keep it that way, and still deal with all the historical quirks and oddities. I welcome any additions or changes you might have.

This article lists a bunch of issues at the bottom but does not comment on them. As no additional information is provided, and their presentation is ambiguous, I am going to remove them. NR

Hi. The "nevertheless" in the intro paragraph doesn't seem to set apart two conflicting ideas. First you talk about mainstream mormon women in the 19th century, then present day folks on the margins, then mainstream today. Perhaps a different order . . . Chrisvls 15:28, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree. I tried to rewrite the intro a little more coherently. COGDEN 00:31, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Name change

The following discussion was copied from Wikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement/polls:

Move Women and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to Women and Mormonism, and broaden scope to include other denominations.

  • Support. This follows the project trend we have lately established. Also, it will be more enlightening to see the progression of women's issues in the various LDS branches. I hope to see (perhaps I will add or invite contributions from others I know) something on the FLDS and modern polygamists. Tom Haws 15:44, Feb 25, 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. I can see the advantages, in terms of simplifying the structure of Mormonism pages. However, I want to make sure the article isn't 99% CoJCoLDS, with the remaining 1% being a short statement about the Community of Christ's ordination of women. Personally, I don't know much about feminism from a CoC perspective. COGDEN 23:57, Feb 26, 2005 (UTC)
    • That seems a legitimate concern, certainly. OTOH, if that's the result in the short term, perhaps it at least makes clear there's a need for expansion (along the lines Tom's suggestions, for example), where at present that material has no place to go at all, unless one were to start very short individual articles. Alai 17:16, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
—Since there is no opposition, I went ahead and made this change. Hopefully someone can fill-out the CoC and Fundamentalist sections. COGDEN 19:15, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV check

 This article has been nominated to be checked for its neutrality.
Discussion of this nomination can be found on the talk page. (December 2007)

The idea that early Mormonism was "women friendly" seems like it might be original research; is there a reference for this analysis? It also seems like it might be disputed. Based on the information in the article, I could easily see another school of thought describing it as "only slightly less patriarchal than society in general" or seeing no significant difference. -- Beland 03:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Modern feminist concerns about the LDS Church generally deal with the place of women in the Church hierarchy as well as problems relating to sexual abuse and family planning. - this is a very ambiguous statement with no clarification, an some very troubling phrases thrown out very casually. Sexual abuse? By whom, and as reported by what entities? Are you referring to institutional sexual abuse or unrelated acts by individuals? Very weasely.
The relaxation of the Church position against family planning as well as the church's public condemnation of the problem of spousal abuse are seen as major advances. - By whom? What group or groups are monitoring or commenting on this? This is a generalization as defined by Wiki standards. agent032125
This article is really just a stub:
  • No citations/footnotes
  • No mention of the book "Sacred Lonliness" by Compton
  • No mention of recent changes to Relief Society structure/authority
  • No mention of the book "Wife No. 19", and a discussion of the large number of women that left the church due to polygamy
So regarding the "OR" questions above, it is not so much that some individual statements are OR or not - the problem is that this article is essentially a stub article in very raw form. It really needs a thorough re-edit. Noleander (talk) 07:17, 26 December 2007 (UTC)