Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Neopaganism
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This article is part of WikiProject Neopaganism, a WikiProject dedicated to expanding, organizing, verifying, and NPOVing articles related to neopagan religions. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. | |
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[edit] Capitalization of Neopagan
The subject of consistent and standard use of the term "Neopagan" on Wikipedia came up and I was wondering about people's opinions on this. This was my reasoning on dab's talk page:
- Convention on this is probably confusing because of the usage in Roman writing to refer to all non-Roman religions as pagan. And that is the general usage of the term, particularly in relation to the Catholic or other Christian denominations.
- However, modern usage in reference to Neopaganism is to capitalize it. It is not a general term in modern usage, it applies to a specific grouping of religions. For example, New Age is generally capitalized because, despite the variety of spiritual and religious paths encompassed, it refers to a rather specific community as well as a group of attitudes.
- By some extension, pagan is sometimes properly capitalized if it's referring to specific grouping. Referring to Hellenic Paganism, my impulse would be to capitalize it because it is a specifically delineated group with certain religious commonalities. While not a organized religion or denomination per se, it would still fall under the grouping of a specific collection of beliefs.
- Anyway, I'm pretty sure capitalizing Neopagan or Neopaganism is a relatively uncontroversial application of rules of English capitalization but let me see if I can get some input elsewhere. I agree that it should be standardized one way.
- It's also Wikipedia convention to capitalize Neopagan although I couldn't tell you if that is written in stone or guidelines somewhere. Also, Margot Adler's book Drawing Down the Moon also explicitly applies [capitalization] as a convention in her footnote on the first page of the first chapter.
dab's concern was over the usage in the following articles: Germanic neopaganism, Baltic neopaganism, Hellenic neopaganism, Slavic neopaganism, Finnish neopaganism and Celtic Neopaganism among others. I've see a few variations (NeoPagan, Neo-Pagan, Neo-pagan all have fans) but the one that makes the most sense to me also seems to be the commonest: "Neopagan". "neopagan" with lower case feels like a non-starter for reasons I outlined above but I'd pay attention if people said otherwise. A version of this discussion happened here some time ago but I want to recheck on opinions because there was no firm consensus. Thoughts? Pigmanwhat?/trail 21:35, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
- The convention in this article, and in most articles on WP, is to capitalize Pagan and Neopagan when referring to religions. Lowercase is reserved for talking about "an irreligious person". The last time we had this debate, consensus was to go with this convention. We explain it in the Neopaganism article, and I sourced it to Adler. I'm assuming no one came along and removed that since I last looked; they shouldn't have, as it's sourced text and reflects consensus. Unfortunately, in his additions to these articles, creation of new articles and renaming of others, Dab has been ignoring both the convention, sources and consensus. He puts a lot of time into the articles, but it is frustrating the way he is proceeding against consensus and sources in these areas, and using up a lot of editors' time as we have to explain to him repeatedly that he can't just change it because he prefers it that way. I would like to see more editors working on this, so he gets the point. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 22:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
When refering to religions is is Wikipedia standard to capitalise the name of the religion and it's adherents, right? // Liftarn
- the problem is that "Neopaganism" isn't "a religion". Its a huge umbrella term, rather like "Abrahamic religions" etc. Actual denominations should of course be capitalized, viz. Wicca, Neo-Druidism, Asatru, Forn Sed, etc. The spelling "Neopaganism" is a bit like the spelling "Abrahamic Religions". Both are arguable, but they strike me as a bit of cheesy or pompous. We Like Capitals. Not a big deal. I do not object to capitalised spelling. In fact, I would prefer the hyphenated spelling Neo-Paganism. But I am not going to invest time in campaigning about this. Can I just ask you to please, please decide on something and then implement it universally, not just for the article you happen to care most about? And ideally also record the consensus on whatever spelling you end up endorsing on this page so that we have a guideline to point to? thanks, dab (𒁳) 08:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
- Well, that was my purpose in posting here about it, dab. But, barring objections, I'll standardise to Neopagan in the articles you mentioned above and any others I can find. I'll move them now. Pigmanwhat?/trail 05:22, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the capitalization of the term "pagan" and "neopagan," always keep in mind the original purpose of the terms thereof. The term "pagan" refers to customs that pertained to non-Hebrew spirituality whole "neopagan" regards the override of all pagan worship due to the absense of Hebrew authority as defined by the Roman Catholic Church asd all of Christianity. The term "pagan" and "neopagan" should not be capitalized without any regard to religious faith. The world's relgions deserves recognizion, and to capitalize the terms "pagan" and "neopagan" would only deteriorate the religions at hand. Please respect the rights of the world's religions before you finalize the capitalization of these two words. Mew Xacata (talk) 20:30, 26 December 2007 (UTC)Mew Xacata
[edit] Anti-pagan vandalism
I checked my watchlist this morning and was disturbed to find this edit to Pagan Pride, accusing Pagan Pride of involvement with animal sacrifice, child sexual abuse, and bestiality involving children. The edit had been up for six and a half hours before I reverted it, probably because the editor had made two innocuous changes in an earlier paragraph (to fool RC patrollers). I wouldn't expect to see more from this editor, but please keep an eye out for further vandalism to project-related articles. Thanks. - AdelaMae (t - c - wpn) 12:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
- I don't see the vandal's earlier edits in their contribs (one contrib only) or the article's edit history. Totnesmartin 16:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
- There were no earlier edits - it's one edit that includes both innocuous changes (fundraiser -> fund raiser) and vandalism. Sorry for the confusion. - AdelaMae (t - c - wpn) 22:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
- Ah well, I'm always confused on a Monday. Totnesmartin 22:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
- There were no earlier edits - it's one edit that includes both innocuous changes (fundraiser -> fund raiser) and vandalism. Sorry for the confusion. - AdelaMae (t - c - wpn) 22:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Anti-pagan vandalism either results in anti-Christian vantalism or is caused by such ativity. All vandalism is a crime (felony), for it is the damage of property. Religion is property, nd for neopagan property to be defaced means the defacement of all religious property. Although there would be nothing said about the neopagan variety, the vandalism thereof counts as a manifest of Christian or other religious prejudice into which the neopagan prejudice is also a form of religious persecution. When we persecute neopagans, we persecute all religions. We will defend the rights of all the world's religions. Pagan vandalism means all persecution of all the world's religions, including Christianity.Mew Xacata (talk) 20:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)Mew Xacata
[edit] Profusion of templates
There is a number of very competently produced templates appearing on articles within the scope of this project, and I just thought it might be worth having a central discussion about their design and use. Rather than spread this talk over 3 or 4 template talk pages, or many article talk pages, I shall set up a page here,post some links and ask if people would join the discussion. Many thanks! Kim Dent-Brown (Talk) 23:23, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Good Article nomination of Wicca
This article has been nominated as a GA candidate. If any editors from the project could look at the article and comment/improve that would be great (especially if you have been uninvolved in contributing there recently.) If anyone feels sufficiently objective and knowledgeable to make the decision about GA status, the nomination is here. Kim Dent-Brown (Talk) 13:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Eko Eko Azarak
I began an article about this Wiccan text, largely because I came across the page and found that it was devoted to a cartoon series, which I have moved. Just calling it to your attention for any further improvements or suggestions you might have.
Also - it's my understanding that some Wiccans use the Carmen Arvale in their current rituals. Some information about that might profitably be added to the article. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 18:05, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Urban Magic
There's a current AfD going on over at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Urban magic. It's not a neopaganism article per se, but a GHit search suggests a neopaganism article rather than the existing one. Since the consensus on the current revision is trending towards deletion, I figured I'd give the project a heads up in case any of you have a more appropriate redirect target, or perhaps even to write a more appropriate article. -- RoninBK T C 00:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] WikiProject Neopaganism: Articles of unclear notability
Hello,
there are currently 10 articles in the scope of this project which are tagged with notability concerns. I have listed them here. (Note: this listing is based on a database snapshot of 12 March 2008 and may be slightly outdated.)
I would encourage members of this project to have a look at these articles, and see whether independent sources can be added, whether the articles can be merged into an article of larger scope, or possibly be deleted. Any help in cleaning up this backlog is appreciated. For further information, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Notability.
If you have any questions, please leave a message on the Notability project page or on my personal talk page. (I'm not watching this page however.) Thanks! --B. Wolterding (talk) 16:52, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Rede Redirect and Article in need of attention/addition to WP:WPN
While I realize that the mandate states that Neopaganism isn't a synonym for Wicca, a Wikipedia search on "Pagan Rede" returned nothing. I think that the "Wiccan Rede" is often enough referred to as the former that a redirect was called for. Let me know if there are any objections. Further on the topic of the Rede, there's only a passing reference to the Rede as a philisophical "Weak Form" of the "Golden Rule" by its use of the double negative to indicate non-interference rather than the affirmative for positive action. I'd like to make that clarification while treading lightly on the subject.
Secondly, I'm considering writing a "Biblical Astrology" article, as the "Biblical Astronomy" (aka Biblical Cosmology) one doesn't really address the Zodiacal interpretation/implications of many scriptural tracts (how often do 12's and 5's and 7's appear in those books in significant situations?). I've got a few sources/citations for this, but would appreciate help once the first draft is posted.
There are also errors in the latter (Bibl. Cosm.), claiming "stars" as the "Heavenly Host" rather than differentiating between the fixed stars and the seven Wandering Stars (a much better article, but in need of additional info on MesoAmerican Astronomical interpretation as commented), as well as counting SEVEN planets rather than the five naked-eye planets plus the sun and moon to make "seven wandering stars". I've lastly got a problem with the claim in that page that the "Captain of the Army" be equated with Saturn, which is furthermore claimed to be the "furthest from Earth" due to the reference to the "highest in altitude". Sorry, but the ancients had no way of knowing the distance of each visible planet from the Sun or Earth. Too much conjecture with no citation and flimsy reasoning.
I added the first paragraph to Winter Solstice - History and cultural significance as well as the first paragraph of Joseph - Christian View. These'll give you an idea of the scope of what I'm trying to do in tying certain archetypal environmental experiences to various mythologies and traditions. I'd like to tag the articles here listed for work (or worked on already) with the WP:WPN project banner, but wanted to check here to make sure my inclusion of them is appropriate and within scope, as well as getting blessings/consensus on the changes/additions I've proposed.
Love and Light - Shamanchill (talk) 17:01, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] The Queen of Heaven article
The Queen of Heaven article, which is tagged as a "WikiProject Catholicism" article, has been having some POV issues lately.
As that appellation seems at least as applicable to Isis (among others) as it is to Mary, I wonder if anyone here might have any useful suggestions re. the recent controversy and/or suggestions for improving the article itself?
Please note my comment on the talk page, as well as this one made previously by someone else.
Thanks! —Wikiscient— 03:57, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
