Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ancient Egypt/Archive 6

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< Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ancient Egypt

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

1 Project directory
2 Mark Antony
3 Illustrative Images from the Altes Museum, Berlin
4 The project tag.
5 Ahmose I FA
- 5.1 December 29, 2006
6 Rosetta Stone: ACID collaboration of the week
7 Peer review
8 Stablepedia
9 Requesting citations to back up Egyptian chronology article
10 Pharaoh article
11 Haty-a
12 New proposed Egypt project
13 An editor with a surprising name
14 Transliteration
15 Wikipedia Day Awards
16 The shortcut for your project
17 Map series
18 Research request area
19 One more reminder to be on guard
20 Request for help: Osiris and Horus
21 Articles on religion and gods
22 New Template
23 Goddess question
24 Ramesses II
25 Request for expert advice
26 Request for a cleanup/expert advice
27 Credentials check.
28 Amenhotep I
29 Ramesses II moved
30 Protecting Hatshepsut from vandalizing edits
31 Touregypt
32 Beware of Ancient Egypt deathrays
33 Ancient Egyptian cuisine
34 Bug in <hiero> tag
35 Photo's
36 Oxyrhynchus FAR
37 The Eloquent Peasant
38 Great Pyramid of Giza‎ vandalism
39 Ancient Egyptian monument infobox
40 Dynasty articles/stubs problem
41 Ancient Egyptian cuisine (fer real)
42 Immanuel Velikovsky
43 Image:Akmanthor.jpg - hoax?
44 Amen
45 Font display error?
46 Proposed merger
47 Who is Christian Settipani?
48 Battle of Kadesh
49 Four sons of Horus
50 Reforming the WikiProject Ancient Egypt page
51 Wikiproject Ancient Egypt Award Proposals
52 Project watchlist
53 Requesting updated assessment
54 FYI : requested move : Portal:Egyptology to Portal:Ancient Egypt
55 Interesting discussion on naming convention
56 Ancient egyptian warfare or Military history of Ancient Egypt
57 Details needed
58 For anybody who knows a lot about hieroglyphics...
59 Project banner
60 Egyptian religion work group articles
61 Heptastadion
62 Alchemy FAR Review
63 Sekhem-Scepter
64 Ancient Egypt a featured article candidate
65 GA Sweeps
66 Great Pyramid of Giza

Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 15:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Mark Antony

Mark Antony is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy (Talk) 23:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This does have little to nothing to do with us. I took a look at it but can't really help you. It's far beyond "Ancient Egypt" Thanatosimii 15:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

If this article has nothing to do with this Project, you might want to removed your template from its talk page. Thank you, Sandy (Talk) 19:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Illustrative Images from the Altes Museum, Berlin

More to come, as I process the images. If anyone has requests for anything in priority, please let me know.

Other things that may be of interest include the famous "Green Head", the (small!) bust of Queen Tiy as well as her fragmentary coffin lid, reliefs depicting Amenophis III and Tutankhamen, plus many things from the Amarna period, including of course the famous head of Nefertiti.

Auf weidersehen from Berlin! Captmondo 23:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

If you are on this list and get the chance to see this collection in Berlin, by all means do so, as you will not be disappointed.

Cheers! Captmondo 04:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

That Thutmose III and Re-Harakhte stele will come in handy if I ever get around to somthing on Reeve's theory on atenism. I recently read his book, "Egypt's false prophet", and he takes the position that atenism is the culmination of the previous four or five kings trying to switch the patron god away from Amun to some aspect of Re, particularly Re-Harakhte. Not that that's what that has to be, but it would make a good illustration of the god nonetheless. Thanatosimii 17:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Glad to be of some help then. The theory you mention sounds interesting, will have to look for the title you mention. Captmondo 13:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

If anyone wants to start a Web page for the Nubian pharaoh Amanitenmemide, you have a ready image to start with. ;-)

Now on to the Roman and Greek items from the Pergamon Museum!

Cheers! Captmondo 02:06, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

The project tag.

Concerning the tag that goes on the top of the talk page for all the pages in our "jurisdiction," so to speak, is it possible to add another element that can be included in certain pages? Specifically, I have discovered that the primary works for several periods are not in english, and I was wondering if there were a way to change the template to include an optional, "The best sources from this period are in xxxx, and the attention of a xxxx speaker would be helpful" or some such flag. After finishing up Thutmose III, I've had this urge to straighten out the first intermediate period, but I was told outrightly in a "suggested reading" list in the back of my Grimal that there has been a lot of recent up to date research which can straighen out this period, in French and German. I don't read german, and I read even less french. Such a flag might help attract one who can do so, or at the very least it will warn people not to collect the english sources and treat them as they are up to date and authoritative. Thanatosimii 17:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Its a good idea, but changing the template is not easy (I copied a pre-existing one)! We could use a separate template to flag these specific issues, and perhaps link to a foreign wikipedia ? Markh 12:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I know even less about this tag editing stuff... is there a place for technical questions somewhere? I do agree that a link to a good foreign version (especially the German one, which usually has the best versions of pages we're lacking) would be helpful as well. Thanatosimii 19:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Ahmose I FA

Well, the GA passed with flying colors, and accordingly since Captmondo and I now have the time to adress concerns, we're nominating it for FA. Any help from other members of the project here would be helpful, though. Thanatosimii 01:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Ahmose I passed! So, since we now have a FA on a Pharaoh, should we make it the Selected Article (which now really can be called "Featured Article" ) for the Portal? No hard feelings against Smenkhkare, but we've finally got a FA now, and we should probably use it.
By the way, what's the deal with "today's featured article" on the main main-page do we ever want to suggest that for selected FA? Thanatosimii 17:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I have changed the portal FA, just using the introduction. Not sure what you mean in the second paragraph. Markh 10:36, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I screwed up some puncuation. How does one go about getting a FA considered for "Today's featured article"? Thanatosimii 02:04, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Go to the Today's featured article/requests section of Wikipedia. Take a look at the required format, and be ready to add a short description at the bottom including the desired date (if any) for it to appear. Hope that helps! Captmondo 03:22, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

December 29, 2006

"Ahmose I will appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on December 29, 2006." Yippee! Markh 09:35, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Congrats all around! This certainly ought to bring more exposure to this group. A minor word of warning, having gone through this previously: monitor the page that day and be ready to do lots of vandalism reverts! Cheers! Captmondo 10:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Um, it was going to be FA for this day, it's been changed to somthing about redshift... does anyone know why? Thanatosimii 03:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I just took a look at Today's featured article/December 2006 and the article summary is not listed there for today or the rest of the few remaining days for this year. Nor does it appear in the January 2007 list either. Where did you get confirmation that it was accepted onto the front page? I suspect you will need to resubmit. Captmondo 17:15, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

It's in the history on that page. It was changed because someone wanted the 30th's article changed to someone on their hundreth birthday or some such thing. I asked what's going to happen now, but haven't gotten a response. Thanatosimii 17:59, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, it's going to be rescheduled sometime mid-january. Thanatosimii 20:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Rosetta Stone: ACID collaboration of the week

Just in case people here were not aware of it, Rosetta Stone has been chosen as the weekly article improvement drive collaboration. Obiously, people from the Ancient Egypt project should get involved as they are probably the most competent on the subject. The article so far isn't that bad, but it's quite rudimentary and such a core topic deserves better. Cheers, Pascal.Tesson 19:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Peer review

Hi, I have just put 2 articles for peer review, Valley of the Kings and Egyptian hieroglyphs. One I have worked on extensively, the other is a nice long article which has been updated bymany people. Can someone swing by these and give them a once over and leave comments, etc. Cheers in advance Markh 10:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Stablepedia

Beginning cross-post.

See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★MESSED ROCKER★ 03:03, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.

Requesting citations to back up Egyptian chronology article

Some nutter was going on about the supposed lack of Biblical bias in the dating of Ancient Egyptian chronologies dating back to the mid-19th century in this article. I reverted, but noted that that while this information is valid, it is not backed up by any valid citations on this point. So citations are needed!

I can't find anything that directly critiques early Victorian-era chronological references for Ancient Egypt. Can somebody out there come up the appropriate citations so that we can shut this argument down effectively?

Cheers! Captmondo 17:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

There are precious few books on the topic of the history of Egyptology; still there ought to be somthing about this somewhere. You might actually consider going down the biblical approach, however. Biblical scholars in the 19th century held to 4004 as creation since if you literally add up the dates in Genesis, you get that. Most, even those holding to inerrancy, will now reject a literal interpretaion of those dates, and it shouldn't be that hard to find somthing like "... but when archaeological discoveries showed history going back further than the literal dates..." in some book. The mere presence of that phrase would be citation enough, I believe, to use in citing that information. Thanatosimii 17:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I just saw this note. I've seen this discussed in print (which is why I added it to the original draft of this article), but I honestly can't remember which book I saw it in. At the moment, I don't know when I'll have the chance to do the necessary legwork to find that specific source.

But I can offer some impression of the problem that confronted 19th century Biblical scholars. I have at hand my great-grandmother's Bible, which happens to be a "Teacher's edition" published by the Oxford Press in 1896, and has copious discussions in the back discussing how the state of archeology circa 1890s fit with the Bible. (Despite it's date, in many ways the discussion is as valuable as anything published today. I have scanned about a third of the plates in this edition & uploaded the scans to Wikipedia Commons, & the illustrations of the Codices Sinaiticus & Ephraemi Rescriptus that appear in Wikipedia come from that book.) There is a discussion of the chronology of the Old Testament, from Adam to the patriarch Joseph, & provides two different totals of the years between the Biblical Flood & when Joseph was sent as a slave to Egypt: there is the 'Hebrew" total of 1072 & the LXX total of 1737. (The two texts vary in the numbers of years key individuals lived.) Remember, according to Genesis all humankind was destroyed during the Biblical Flood, so the oldest kingdoms of man -- like Egypt -- had to come into existence after the Flood.

Now, if I turn to my copy of the Loeb edition of Manetho's fragments, we immediately encounter a problem. According Eusebius, the patriarch Joseph "was appointed king of Egypt" during the 17th dynasty (Mantheo, fr. 48). I'll admit that I'm being lazy here, but relying the totals provided in other fragments of Manetho's chronology I find that between the beginning of the First dynasty & the end of the Eleventh alone, Manetho states 2300 years passed -- far more than either version of the Old Testament offer.

I assume the way that learned writers handled this discrepency over the following 18 (or more) centuries was to argue that Manetho made mistakes in his calculations, or that the quotations made from his texts were faulty -- or quite simply, they just ignored the problem. After all, Egyptology was for many centuries a very esoteric subject, & during that time it was far easier to find fraud & myth than reliable facts. However, when scholars were at last able to read the primary texts of ancient Egypt in the 19th century, this contradiction could not be overlooked any longer: they had incontestable & documented proof that human history extended earlier than the date of the Biblical Flood! Here my need to remember my source is important, because I remember that the 19th century's first reaction to this problem was to hide it; the first Egyptologists consciously misrepresented the information in these texts & inscriptions in order to shoe-horn them into accepted Biblical chronology. It wasn't until around 1850 that Egyptologists were confident enough to make this problem known, & it is my own modest opinion that this information helped to accelerate scientific interest in the age of the earth & the discovery of prehistoric life (e.g., dinosaurs, trilobites, the Neandertal Man, etc.).

Resistence to acknowledging this problem still continues, mainly by people who hold tightly to Biblical inerrancy, but I feel it's far more healthy to admit that all humans make mistakes, & because the Bible is written by humans there are errors in it. After all, to admit that there are errors in the Bible does not logically lead to the conclusion that it is completely in error. -- llywrch 01:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Pharaoh article

I'm not a member of this project, but I was looking at the Pharaoh article recently, and it looks to be in need of some serious clean-up. Specifically this passage:

Lets make this clear to all, because in the educated community, this is an undebatable fact upon many factors including conquests, languages, history, religions, and most importantly the simple fact of time frame. The Copts ARE the modern descendants of the ancient Egyptians and ARE the living descendants of the Pharaohs. These people were converted to Christianity during the Roman period in Egypt (coptic christians). Which explains the coptic languages derivative and so forth. But important to note - Roman Period is when ancient Egyptians, the Pharaohs, converted to Christianity, specifically known today as Coptic Christian.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/EGYPT/PTOLEMY.HTM If you don't beleive this site, you can go to absolutely any scholarly journal, history book, or scholarly website and it will tell you the Roman Period. Be careful of websites where people just give their opinion. http://www.civilization.ca/CIVIL/EGYPT/egctimee.html You will find this: Roman Period 332 B.C. - A.D. 395, and take note that this was the period that the ancient Egyptians were converted to Christianity. The end of the Roman Empire was in A.D. 395, Egypt was controlled from Byzantium until the Arab conquest in A.D. 641

The writing there is obviously Unencyclopedic. Maybe a project member could fix it? Thanks! MightyAtom 05:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Haty-a

Do we have a page about the office of Haty-a, The term for local prince, count, baron, prince-govenor, etc., and if so, what is it called? Which translation is it. If not, we really ought to have once since it's a fairly important office. But then the question is again what should it be called? There doesn't seem to be any standard translation that everyone uses, and I'm guessing the transliteration of ḥ3ty-` isn't going to go over well with the technical restrictions. Any ideas? Thanatosimii 03:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Stephen Quirke's Titles and Bureaux of Egypt 1850-1700 BC translates it as 'Mayor', but in the Shipwrecked Sailor it is usually 'Count'. Both of which are a bit dull! [1] uses 'governor'. So there doesn't seem to be a good standard translation. HAty-a (upper case 'A') seems to be a directish tranliteration, so perhaps we should use that? Markh 22:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... is it possible to get the transliteration symbol actually in the title, or would technical restrictions get it messsed up? I think the transliteration is supposed to be somthing like ḥʔty-ʕ, although the two IPA symbols aren't quite accurate. Can that actually be a title under the technical restrictions? Furthermore, on a tangent, does anyone know how to make those symbols turn up right on my screen? it reads somthing like box-box-t-y-box to me right now... Thanatosimii 00:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

You may not have the correct font installed. I think that would be a technical restriction for using the IPA symbols, most people probably won't have them. I have a kids book on heiroglyphs somewhere that has the transliterations turned into 'words' (if you see what I mean), so that might do (we should also have TAty - vizier) Markh 10:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'll put somthing together on HAty-a for now, since I've got that as a red link in a page I'm trying to get to GA. Thanatosimii 14:48, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

HAty-a is nomarch according to my notes, usually also translated as governor or mayor. There is already a page for nomarch (mot a great one)...--Cliau 13:55, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

New proposed Egypt project

There is no also a proposed project dealing with Egypt in general at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Egypt. Any parties interested in working on articles related to the more current aspects of Egypt are more than welcome to indicate their interest there, so we can know whether there is sufficient interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

An editor with a surprising name

I have David Rohl watchlisted for reasons I won't bother sharing at the moment. As I was looking over my watch list, I noticed these edits from an account with a familiar name (the only edits this account have made). Anyone know if this is the David Rohl, Egyptologist? The edits made are mostly noncontroversial (date of birth, status of a book at the press), although one obviously required a {{fact}} (Kitchen's comment about Rohl's theories), so I haven't bothered to revert them -- although I'd feel more comfortable if I knew these facts were true. -- llywrch 19:30, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd be very skeptical about the nature of what Kitchen actually said, and if it can't be verified, it should probably be taken out. The argument that the Conquest happened in the Middle Bronze (which is probably what he conceded as an outside possibility) is the standard argument for almost any Early Date exodus supporter, and is invariably followed by the argument that the Middle Bronze II C destruction layer is misdated and should be pulled down by a century (i.e. not during the second intermediate period). Whoever this suprisingly named editor is, I believe he's trying to twist Kitchen's comments to mean somthing that Kitchen never meant. Thanatosimii 20:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Which is why I added the fact template to this article. At the moment I don't see a pressing need to delete this contribution, & I'm willing to wait for this editor to add the necessary source so readers can verify just what Kitchen did say. If anything, I'm bemused by the possibility that if this editor is Rohl, he has tacitly accepted a biography of himself that one editor in the past claimed was very unfair to him! (Although I'm still puzzled why that person thought so: most of the biographical details were taken directly from Rohl's own webpage.) -- llywrch 21:55, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

If it is Rohl, I guess it's just our luck that he of all people chose to write somthing for wikipedia ;) Too bad we couldn't have gotten Redford or Grimal... heck, I'd settle for Hawass. Thanatosimii 22:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Update: Since I wrote the above, Mr Rohl & I have been exchanging emails over this article. He appears to be reasonable so far, but is concerned that I haven't offered any proof that his theory about Egyptian Chronology is not accepted by the majority of Egyptologists, as well as his need to provide a cite for the Exodus Conference. If the rest of you would watchlist the article in case I fail to explain to him the Wiki way with this article (hell, I really don't have that strong of an opinion on the identification of the Biblical Sheshak), & he decides to start an edit war on the article. -- llywrch 18:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Transliteration

Further information: Transliteration of ancient Egyptian

I propose we need a Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Ancient Egyptian) (paralleling Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese), Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic)), in particular addressing transliteration issues. In particular, ȝ vs. 3 (vs. ɹ or what); ỉ vs. j, but in general just guidelines on how to name things. dab (𒁳) 16:21, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I've had to argue that two pages be moved back to their previous names this month because we lack such a convention to point to. Some general things to include I would think would be:
*Avoid greek names (i.e. no Sesostris, Amenemes, Amenophis, or Tuthmosis) but give their greek names in parentheses if common.
*Use (mostly) Gardiner's transliteration system, as it is the one I have seen overwhelmingly used in scholarly journals. However, try to find a replacement for that 3 for the aleph. There doesn't seem to be a good symbol for it... I can't seem to think of any places where changes are necesarry to his system right now.
*Names should be transliterated somewhere in the article on the so-named person or thing, but the common term should ideally use the common transliteration system- Aleph and Ayin become A's; i becomes I; w stays W or becomes U; all other letters become what they are transliterated into except for the augmented symbols- the four h's become h, h, kh, and kh, the funny t, d, and s become Tj, Dj, and Sh; Both s's stay S, the one that was z in the old kingdom remains a S; ... Am I forgetting any big ones?
That was a bit of a ramble on, but those are some places to start from, I suppose. Of course the big rule would be to chuck any and all of these rules if the literature uses a different version overwhemingly more frequently. Thanatosimii 01:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I second the motion, as I also recognize the need, (though I would not be able to provide much by way of expertise). What is the process for drafting up a sample template of this type? Captmondo 02:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Anyone thought about this ? Can I just create the page with the notes above (and then get them cleaned up)? Markh 16:22, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

The shortcut for your project

You use WP:EGYPT as a shortcut to your project. However, on December 26, 2006 WikiProject Egypt started which is a project that create, improve, and maintain articles related to the nation of Egypt and create guidelines for articles about Egypt. We need to create a shortcut to our project. So, please consider creating another shortcut to your project like: WP:ANEGYPT so that we can make WP:EGYPT redirect to our project. Thank you.

--Meno25 01:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:ANEGYPT is a little long. I wouldn't object to somthing like WP:ANEGY or somthing... or perhaps we could do a roundabout soulution and take WP:KMT? Thanatosimii 03:20, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

While I like WP:KMT, there's the potential for conflict with the Kuomintang, which uses KMT as its acronym. WP:KEMET maybe? Captmondo 03:37, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it really likely that there's going to be a wikiproject:kuomintang? But yes, I see potential conflict. However, there could be concievable conflict with just about anyone based on whatever we take. Still I suppose WP:KEMET works just as well. Thanatosimii 05:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Map series

I've started a world history map series based on The Cassell Atlas of World History by John Haywood et al. I would like to do a similar series for just Egypt, using the Penguin Atlas of Ancient Egypt. Does anyone have or know where I can find a high-resolution blank map of the region, preferably with the areas of western Libya, Nubia, the Levant, and Cyprus shown, that I could use as a template? Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 19:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Research request area

We could use a seperate page, or at least area, for putting up requests for research that other people might be able to fulfill. Some of us have more access to some books and journals than others. For instance, I can get ahold of the Journal of Near Eastern Studies, but not the Journal of Egyptian Archaeology. If we had a source collaboration page, I could request research be done by someone who did have JEA access, and someone who needed JNES research done could put up somthing and I could go look it up. Additionally, we could each list books we own so that we know who has what.

Specific example: We could use Thutmose III : A New Biography over at Thutmose III, to fill in certain gaps in artistic and domestic development. After we get information from that book, I believe only minor work is required before we peer review then and go for FA. Now, I can get that book in a month or so, but if any of you have access to that book, I could put a request up and you, if you had the time, could do some research and get the work done weeks earlier than I could. (by the way, if anyone does have access to that book, we could use help). This, I believe, would just be a simple way to get the most help to the places of most need. More potential for collaboration is better than less. Thanatosimii 21:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

One more reminder to be on guard

Today is the day Ahmose I is Today's Featured Article. Thus, be on guard if you have the time to keep watch, since at least one vandal has shown up already. Thanatosimii 01:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Request for help: Osiris and Horus

The Jesus as myth article currently includes an almost entirely unreferenced section on Osiris and Horus. If someone knowledgeable about Egyptian mythology could check the accuracy of its statements in that area and indicate appropriate references, that would be great. EALacey 10:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I have left comments on that talk page. I don't think much of those arguments (I am nearly certain that they either directly or indirectly derive from the far out of date works of E. A. Wallace Budge) but given the title of the article, it is perfectly suited to cover such theories therein. However, if a scholar with the necesarry credentials cannot be produced, I would think it only fair to add a "this is not accepted in the disciplines of Egyptology and Second Temple Judaic Studies" proviso. Thanatosimii 05:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Articles on religion and gods

I have done some editing on Amduat, Coffin Texts, and particularly Four sons of Horus becasue I found they were full of personal opinions and interpretations (which were unreferenced). I found it difficult because I couldn't find any basis for what was being said so I tried to replace it with quotes from texts and so on. My editing skills are a bit primitive and loading pics takes an age cos I am on dial up. Is anyone looking at religion specifically? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Apepch7 (talk • contribs) 22:57, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

Ooops sorry forgot to Apepch7 23:14, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

New Template

Hi, I saw this page and you guys didn't have a template so use this.

This user is a member of
WikiProject Ancient Egypt.

( Seong0980 07:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC) )

Goddess question

Hi,

In the article Amunet I found something I have questions about, but it was added by an anonym IP a long time ago and no source was mentioned. The sentence is: "she [Amunet] was said, as representing the air, to have become the lesbian consort of Iabet, the moon itself, and was depicted as such on tombs, coffins, and sarcophaguses." Now as far as I know, Iabet is the personification of the East, and she was depicted with Amentet, the personification of the West. Was Amunet identified with Amentet or was the anonymous editor mistaking one for the other because of the similar names? And was Iabet associated with the moon? (I haven't heard of female Egyptian deities associated with the moon yet.) – Alensha ^talk 16:10, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Ramesses II

This article could be featured with a bit of work, I think. I changed some info on his family background, esp. siblings, and wrote new articles (Henutmire, Nebettawy, Princess Tia.) The "Building activity and monuments" section is way too long, especially considering that all of these merit their own articles (which, in most cases, they have, but those independent articles go into less detail than this long section). The tomb of Nefertari should either have its own articles or be moved to Nefertari's article. Also, the exodus stuff should have its own article and discussed only briefly in the main article. It's long enough to have its own article, also, with all respect to religious readers, I doubt this is serious enough to be discussed in Ramesses' article in full length. – Alensha ^talk 16:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Anyone else? :) – Alensha ^talk 21:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think what you have done so far has been much needed for that article. Shunting people to look at articles that provide more in-depth information elsewhere is certainly called for, especially when it comes to specific monuments and the ever-contentious "Pharaoh of the Exodus?" section. Unfortunately there's still a lot of cleaning up to be done, especially by the contributor who cited works but didn't provide page numbers -- don't expect this to get to Feature Quality status if this isn't taken care of. This particular article has also proved to be a magnet for vandals and for those with definite opinions on the subject, which has made me leery of devoting too much time to this particular article in the past, so expect a running battle trying to keep it together. I would also suggest taking a look at the German and Polish equivalents of this article, as they both became featured articles in their respective languages -- even if you can't read either language directly (I can't) there are some good ideas (and images) that you may be able to reuse in the English version. For what it is worth, I think the mummy section ought to come after or be a sub-section of the area devoted to his tomb. Finally, there are a wide range of images that could be called upon to illustrate various points on WikiMedia; see: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ramses_II. Keep up the good work! Captmondo 16:09, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The article is clearly shaping up (or perhaps slimming down is better in this case) quite nicely, but I'm afraid the formatting could use some work still. The page is a little picture heavy, both in size and quantity of images. I'm not sure if this is against the rules for style, but perhaps it's a good idea to remove some and put a commonscat notice directly in that section linking to images of ramesseid construction.
The 19th dynasty is outside of my area of specialty, but I think I can easilly put together a short section on his dates of reign as well. You also might want to consider cutting out the "Names" section. Those sections were prolific before the pharaoh infoboxes were introduced, which now renders them superfluous and removed in most articles. The only data there which is not very redundant is his names' likely pronunciations, however there's no citation for that, and thus it might be better to just cut it. It's always in the history if a citation can be produced, at which time that could also be put in the infobox. Thanatosimii 19:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

it is getting better now, thanks to everyone who worked on it! – Alensha ^talk 22:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Request for expert advice

Hi there, I'm one of the editors involved with the influenza page. We are looking for some academic references or discussion of ancient Egyptian animal agriculture. In particular, any information on if they had pigs and waterfowl/fishfarms. If anybody has information on this, please drop a note on the [talk page]. Thank you. TimVickers 22:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Request for a cleanup/expert advice

See the [talk page] for the Old Kingdom article for more information. -HawkeyE 10:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Credentials check.

I was recently reading an article by Aidan Dodson on the mortuary temple of Amenhotep I. I've run across his name in citations here before, so I supposed he was a reliable source, but I found that this article was hosted at [2], which has connections with certain... fringe authors. Is this just a case of strange bedfellows, or is Dodson on the fringe too? Thanatosimii 19:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it is 'strange bedfellows' see [3] and [4]. Markh 08:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Amenhotep I

For the past few months, I've been stumbling over sources with relevant data on Amenhotep I. I've been piecing it together, and I am approaching FA levels of exhaustiveness. I've still got to add a little on the Ebers papyrus, Amduat, and rewrite his building projects stuff, but at least I have the sources I need for that on me. However, Exhaustiveness is not the only thing required for a FA; since most of the text is my own, it all reeks of my style a little to much, I think. So, if anyone wants to take a look at smoothing off some rough edges, it would be helfpul, since I plan on putting this up for FA soon. I have a week and a half away from school now, and since that affords me the best amount of time to respond to FA nomination comments, I do hope to be able to nominate it within that timespan. Thanatosimii 03:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I really didn't expect to wait quite so long before getting around to it... but I finished all my concerns about this article, got some WP:MOS issues ironed out, and am about to nominate it for FA. Thanatosimii 22:09, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Ramesses II moved

Someone has moved the above article! Does anyone know how to get it back without losing all of the edit history ? Markh 14:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Protecting Hatshepsut from vandalizing edits

Given the recent spate of vandalization from various anonymous IP sources of the Hatshepsut article, I asked for and got that page set to semi-protected status, which means that only registered or long-standing users can edit the page directly (note that this ban is only in place until mid-April -- but it may be long enough to deter some of the more persistent vandals). I know this is an issue on some other pages as well (Ramesses II comes to mind) so for those who might want to ask an Admin to protect a page, here is where to go. Captmondo 17:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Touregypt

someone came through wikipedia and deleted just about every last instance of this site from the entire place. I cleaned up a lot of it, but we should be on the lookout for more that I missed. On this note, does anyone really know why that site keeps getting pogromed out? This is not the first time I remember someone going bananas over it... Thanatosimii 03:37, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't like how it was added to the spamlist & ranted about that process on Wikipedia: Village pump (policy). So far the essay has been treated like a troll -- that is, ignored. Comments appreciated. -- llywrch 20:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that touregypt has useful material and should not be placed on the spamlist just because somebody does not like it. I would suggest that a person who removes a reference should replace it with an alternative. Just pulling out references is actually a destructive act, judgmental, and can leave an article in a mess. Ekem 02:34, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

If you look at the discussion, there seems to have been a lot of name calling from at least one administrator – so I am rather despairing of what we can actually do. It seems that the the wikipedia community is actually no such thing. Markh 22:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Markh, if you mean whom I think you do, he appears to be encountering some more problems due to his brusque tone & inflexible stance on the matter; have a look at the relevant thread on WIkipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. But I'm posting here to ask for a favor from the rest of the folks: can someone post a request for a link to this website at MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist? One request to whitelist a link to touregypt.net seems to have stalled & has been left to wither away. -- llywrch 00:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Done. I am more upset by the attitude of this admin, than by the blacklisting of the site. Markh 12:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Touregypt has been added to the whitelist, and it doesn't look like it's being objected to by opponents this time, so we can theoretically restore the pages now. However, I was personally told:
* Try and use other websites that could convey the same information.
* The presence of ads doesn't bother most of us, but some will still feel that Tour Egypt isn't the best authority to use on Wikipedia, since they are mostly a commercial venture.
*The rules on external links still aplly.
Now, the consensus here seems to be that there never was a spam problem with this page at any point, however in order to be gracious winners, I suggest that restoration of the use of that domain should be done with some consideration (not necesarraly as a project, just us weighing each link personally) as to if each individual page is useful, and not done en masse. Thanatosimii 22:31, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Although it's been a while since I've worked in this topic, I made a stab at what I think is how we should proceed with Unas -- as well as pushed this past a stub. Does it work as an example? -- 06:18, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Beware of Ancient Egypt deathrays

Dear members of WikiProject Ancient Egypt, may I ask for volunteers for keeping an eye at User:Reddis contribution in this area? I'm more than willing to assume his good faith, but nevertheless he may be taken away by his sympathy for non-standard theories. Please see e.g.

Pjacobi 18:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Please have a look at the [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/History and geography<article content RFC]] filed regarding Dendera_Temple_complex#The_Dendera_light. --Pjacobi 11:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Ancient Egyptian cuisine

I couldn't find anything in the main articles on Ancient Egyptian cuisine so I thought I would start working on one. Does anyone know if we have anything written on the subject?

Peter ^Isotalo 15:30, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Bug in <hiero> tag

I don’t know if this is the right place to put this, but there’s evidently a bug in the <hiero> tag, or maybe Mediawiki. Take a look at Ptolemy (name): The tag is in a list, and after the table is closed, a new unordered list is opened although the previous one was never closed. For the meantime, I’ve worked around it by breaking the list in two and taking <hiero> outside of the list.

Also, how can you find out more info about <hiero>-format templates? Are they just a synonym for {{hiero|}}-style ones?

—Felix the Cassowary 07:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Photo's

Have added some new high def pictures to my wikkicommons page http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Merlin-UK if they are any use to you Merlin-UK 19:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Oxyrhynchus FAR

Oxyrhynchus has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. LuciferMorgan 22:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

We can take a look, but to my knowledge noone here has extensive knowledge on the Roman period. Thanatosimii 17:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The Eloquent Peasant

I have categorized my article on the Egyptian story The Eloquent Peasant as Ancient Egypt and Ancient Egyptian Literature and am wondering how it can be included into the Ancient Egypt Wikiproject. - Zulu, King Of The Dwarf People 16:19, 28 Apr 2007 (UTC)

Great Pyramid of Giza‎ vandalism

Anyone want to support page protection of Great Pyramid of Giza‎? Markh 21:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Ancient Egyptian monument infobox

I've created an infobox for Ancient Egyptian monuments at Template:Infobox_Ancient_Egyptian_monument. I am currently using this infobox in the Temple of Edfu article. My thought was this could be used to tie together various historical sites. We currently have infoboxes for Egyptian pyramids (Template:Egyptian Pyramid Infobox) and royal tombs (Template:EgyptianRoyalTombDetail), but nothing that fits temples or the general case all that well. I tried to make this infobox flexible enough to be used in most monument articles. Please take a look and let me know what you think. — Meersan 17:21, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Dynasty articles/stubs problem

We have a well-meaning yet oddly thinking Wikipedian who is putting the articles about the various dynasties into a peculiar format. I left a note on his page about it, but I'm the first person to communicate with him in this manner -- despite the fact he's contributed to Wikipedia since 2005. Anyone else want to take a look at these reorganizations & offer their input? -- llywrch 02:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Ancient Egyptian cuisine (fer real)

I've started an article on the foods and eating habits of ancient Egypt. Don't hesitate to chip in. Egyptology is not one of my strongest topics.

Peter ^Isotalo 01:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Immanuel Velikovsky

An anonymous IP address is adding in fringe 'facts' into several articles. Djoser, Akhenaten, Thutmose III amongst them. Any ideas on how to deal with someone who doesn't appear to respond to suggestions? Markh 17:17, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

After a glance at Djoser, if he reverts you a third time (& no, it's not relevant at this point if he waits until the 26th or later), he may get a 24-hour block. Long-time Wikipedians (like me) are tired of this mindless revert-without-discussion routine. Now, if these persons were important to Velikovsky's theories, maybe inclusion of Velikovsky's opinions would be relevant (much as I tried to do with David Rohl's theories) because he is familiar to many people; this would be done by creating a section & stating that "X plays an important part in the theories of Velikovsky, & this is how." However since I haven't read Velikovsky (nor do I care to), until someone explains how these fit in -- or this anon decides to talk to the rest of us -- he can be blocked for short or longer periods of time. -- llywrch 03:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Akmanthor.jpg - hoax?

Image from reflexology article

This image appears in the article about the pseudoscience of reflexology. It claims to be adapted from a dead web page. The image description says:

It is a wall painting found in the tomb of the highest official after the Pharaoh - Ankhmahor. The tomb is also known as the physicians tomb. Therefore it suggests that what the people in the painting is doing must be somewhat related to health, therefore it is suspected that they are practising the early version of reflexology.

This wall painting is dated back to 2330 B.C.

I suspect a hoax. It doesn't look like a wall painting; it looks like papyrus, and a recently made papyrus for that matter. The hieroglyphs seem badly formatted, and in my cursory acquaintance with the language seem to not make much sense. Was wondering if anyone here had any thoughts. - Smerdis of Tlön 19:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Yup ... writing makes no sense to me... --Cliau 13:55, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

In light of these concerns and because it is currently not used by any articles I have nominated it for deletion. -Icewedge 07:51, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I came across discussion of this image on the ifd page, and I'd like to point out that this isn't a hoax. (Whether or not it represents reflexology as reflexologists like to claim is another matter.) You can find it frequently referred to in reliable sources on the reliefs in Ankhmahor's mastaba, such as [5], [6], or [7]. There's a photo of the relief this picture was made from here, so at least part of it is accurate, if reversed, and the representation of the hieroglyphs is fanciful, at best.

Unfortunately, it's not easy to find pictures of this tomb's reliefs, at least online, except for the famous one that's been interpreted as a depiction of a circumcision. As it's not currently open to the public, new images are not going to be available either.

However, it's certainly a copyright violation if orphaned, as it's a modern work that's merely based on the original and must be copyrighted. If it's used at all it needs to be with a valid fair use rationale. TCC (talk) (contribs) 02:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Amen

Members of this project might like to add Amen (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) and Amun (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) to their watchlists. There have been numerous attempts to add a fringe theory that the Hebrew word and the Egyptian god are linked. It all sounds like popular pseudo-science, but its proponents push it hard on the talk pages. I'd appreciate any help dealing with this. — Gareth Hughes 18:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Font display error?

On Egyptian biliteral signs I get ı͗w, ı͗b, ... rendered as a vertical stroke in the lower half of character height, followed by a superscripted hollow upright rectangle of character height, then the Latin consonant. Copy/pasting it in an edit window gives something like a small-caps "1" followed by an invisible character followed by the Latin consonant. This is weird; I ought to have Unicode support. The 2 characters in question are rendered as a "j" here. Dysmorodrepanis 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC) Added missing info -- dys

Proposed merger

Wikipedia:WikiProject Egyptian Religion seems to deal almost exclusively with content which also falls within the scope of this project, with the exception of Hermetism, an article which has since been turned into a redirect. As that project seems rather inactive, I think it makes sense to merge it to this project either as a task force of this project or just remove the page entirely. Personally, I would prefer the former however. John Carter 14:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

It would nice to see someone with sound Egyptological knowledge go through the entries on religion and sort fact from fantasy. If this is more likely to happen with a merger then I would support it.Apepch7 11:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Who is Christian Settipani?

I have no idea who Christian Settipani is, and why he is now referenced a large number of Ancient Egyptian articles. He doesn't appear to be a professional Egyptologist (and is described as 'Technical Director of an IT company in the Paris area.'). Anyone know whether they are a reliable source ? Markh 19:50, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Not just Egyptological, but a large number of articles related to ancient history. It seems he's exactly what his bio says he is, and the references are to his works on tracing genealogy to Antiquity. It looks as if he's being cited to support statements on the families of Antique royalty.

Unfortunately, he does not appear to be a reliable source. [8]. Without checking, I wonder how fanciful his published work is. His publisher is "Editions Christian", a French outfit that specializes in genealogical works. I would guess they have no one on staff to properly evaluate ancient historical claims. To judge from some of his reviews, he has a habit of engaging in speculation.

The article on him was added by a user I normally think sensible, and admin no less; otherwise I'd have guessed this was spam. TCC (talk) (contribs) 01:32, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Kadesh

I think we are in need of some help in the Battle of Kadesh article. We have one author who is continually adding references that I consider to be copied from another website (they do not seem to understand my concerns), has added a large amount of references that are irrelevant and basically messed up the article. Can anyone help us out and look at this page? Cheers Markh 23:54, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

The same user (User:Rktect) has copied more text from the [9] page into the Nine bows article. Markh 22:23, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Four sons of Horus

I have been looking at the main entry for the four sons of Horus and the four stub entries for Hapi, Imsety, Duamutef, and Qebehsenuef. It seems to me that the best way to handle these would be to merge the four stubs back with the main entry as there isn't much to say about each individual son. I have already raised this at Talk:Four_sons_of_Horus and have only had one response so far which was positive. I don't mind sorting this out but as it take some time to sort out any double redirects I don't want to start only to have it reverted. So what do people think about my sugestion?

Molybdomancer 21:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Reforming the WikiProject Ancient Egypt page

With the indulgence of the people who are part of this Wikiproject, I would like to undertake a revamping of the main WikiProject page for this group.

I have just added a automated listing that rates all of various articles that have been tagged as being of some interest to this community. I wanted to find such a tool myself so that I could have a better idea as to how many project pages are within (and without) the scope of this project. I found this application and tweaked it to reflect our interests, hoping none would object if I placed it here.

I would like to further refine the main Wikiproject project page, with the hopes of helping to focus the group`s efforts, or at the very least to provide useful information for those interested in raising the general quality level of Ancient Egyptian articles in Wikipedia.

Any objections or comments? Captmondo 02:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at WP:MIL or WP:WPARCH for ideas, both nice looking project pages. Markh 21:36, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, there are some good ideas there. Will use them!

Just for the record, I like the layout seen on the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military page, but I like the "banner" at the top of the WP:WPARCH page and the "awards" offered on the WP:MIL page for outstanding contributors. There are useful things there that can be usefully "poached". ;-) Captmondo 13:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Added a banner (its a straight copy of the one from WP:WPARCH). There some missing links Markh 18:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Excellent work -- and I see you have made additions to the bottom of the page as well to fill in some of the missing blanks that were on the banner.

Will spend some time over the weekend filling in further info. Captmondo 01:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

No objections. I would be interested in knowing what you were specifically referring to by "automated listing", though. John Carter 22:34, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

It's the "[subject] articles by quality statistics" function that was put together by the Version 1.0 Editorial Team -- it's the colourful table currently at the top of the project page that lists the status of all articles that have been tagged with an Ancient Egypt banner in their respective talk pages. If you click on the links (FA, A, GA, etc) you'll get a list of all Ancient Egyptian articles that have been assessed at that quality level. It also serves as a means to find out what pages are ostensibly of interest to the group. I have been using the link lists as a means to add articles to my watchlist, and can also see a few articles which are likely candidates for deletion or merge. Cheers! Captmondo 12:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I thought that might be it. I just wasn't sure from the phrasing whether I was right, and wanted to be sure I knew what you were talking about. Thanks for the clarification. John Carter 14:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Other than the awards, what's on the main page pretty much finishes the "revamp" (with much thanks to Markh for lending a hand). Is there anything else people would like to see added? (Haven't forgotten about the "awards", but I need some dedicated time using PhotoShop to come up with some.) Captmondo 00:13, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject Ancient Egypt Award Proposals

In keeping with other Wikiprojects that offer graphical icon-like "awards" to outstanding contributors, I can think offhand of three levels of awards that I think would be appropriate:

Wiki Vulture pectoral: Used as a protective amulet, awarded to those who have made outstanding ongoing contributions to vandal-fighting relating to project pages. (Reference image: here)
Wiki "Gold of Honour": This was a collar of gold that was presented by the pharaoh to trusted officials; this would be given to those who have made outstanding contributions to the field (helping significantly with a Good Article, or long-standing quality contributions to various articles would qualify. (Reference image: here; not the best image I've seen of this, and I am sure I could come up with something suitably iconic).
Wiki "Golden Flies": These were handed out by the pharaoh to those who succeeded/excelled in battle; I think this is wholly appropriate for anyone who has worked on getting an article to Feature Article status. (Reference image: here and here).

Given our area of interest, there's no lack of possible iconography that can be used here (perhaps a Ushabti or an Eye of Horus for vandal fighters, for example), so if anyone else has suggestions go right ahead! As long as there is a sample image I can work with and would lend itself to being "icon-ized", I'll happily tackle the job in PhotoShop. Cheers! Captmondo 02:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Am also thinking of a particular Ancient Egyptian variant of the ubiquitous barnstar awards. Just need some dedicated time with PhotoShop and will present some ideas here when I have something to show. Captmondo 00:15, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Project watchlist

Hi, I had a look at another WikiProject (I thought it was WP:ISLAM, but I can't find it now!), and they have a global watchlist for their project. Basically if we create a page that has a list of every article within the project scope, and then look at the related changes, we get a project watchlist, as below (just an experiment) ..

We would have to have the pages in the scope of this project, so as not to get them deleted (or easily vandalised). Anyone else think this is a good idea? Markh 20:57, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

NOTE: it was Wikipedia:WikiProject Islam/Islam and Controversy task force. Markh 22:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it is a good idea.

In fact, in keeping with being bold, I've compiled a page that contains every Ancient Egyptian-tagged article, which can be found at: Wikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Egypt/Ancient Egypt Watchlist. So, using the Recentchangeslinked function you get a comprehensive What's changed page that covers off every Ancient Egyptian article that is so tagged.

Any plans on how to deploy this? Cheers (and great idea)! Captmondo 01:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

How about a userbox? Markh 21:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Show recent changes to
Ancient Egypt
watchlist articles

If I might suggest some changes to the article list. I've been the one making most of them for the various religion projects, and I've been setting them up by categories. By doing so, it should be a bit easier to monitor whichever new articles are created, as those will most likely be the articles which were added to the categories since the last time the article page was updated. I acknowledge that the only project I've actually been able to test this theory on to date is WP:SAINTS, but it does make checking on new articles in the scope of the project much easier. John Carter 21:46, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, although it still relies on people adding them to the template(s), also I'm not sure how to do it ? Where in WP:SAINTS is this done , as we may need to copy it! Markh 22:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Um, I don't think that what John Carter proposes is a good idea in this case, as the current way of creating the list that is being referenced leads itself to automation/scripting, whereas I doubt a category approach can or will always be kept current. I suggest that the two lists be different (or be held in different places).

I support what John Carter is doing in general as I understand it (having a handy list of all Ancient Egyptian articles is well worth having), but I would prefer a (semi-)automated approach when it comes to having a watchlist. If I am wrong and there is automated code behind this, could you please show us an example (I couldn't find it on WP:SAINTS either).

And just an aside, I think a good audit of what has been tagged as an Ancient Egyptian article would be a good idea. I have subsequently run across articles from some that are dubious (such as those for various Generals/court officials from the time of Alexander the Great that do not reference Ancient Egypt at all or at best only glancingly. Captmondo

Requesting updated assessment

Hi folks--I'd like to request an updated assessment for Abu Mena, which has been significantly rewritten since its original assessment. Thanks! Dppowell 00:40, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd call this start class. Give me a few minutes and I'll write a short peer review on areas to work on. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 00:50, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

OK, deposited the mini review at the article's talk page. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 01:21, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

FYI : requested move : Portal:Egyptology to Portal:Ancient Egypt

DYI User:Jeff Dahl has requested that the portal page Portal:Egyptology be renamed to Portal:Ancient Egypt at WP:RM?

- see Portal talk:Egyptology. 132.205.99.122 19:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Interesting discussion on naming convention

Hi all, there is an interesting discussion going on at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Ancient Egyptian), which started as a rename discussion for KV62 (see talk:KV62). It would be great to have everyone's input, whether you are for or against the suggested move. Having a set of conventions would prevent a long discussion each time a name change is suggested. Markh (talk) 23:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

If I am the only person that finds the discussion above of any interest (KV62 would be renamed Tomb of Tutankhamun), then I'll stop arguing. Markh (talk) 19:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Ancient egyptian warfare or Military history of Ancient Egypt

Which is it to be? The content ought to be merged but I'm not sure which title is best, or perhaps another option? Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 03:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone suggested it should be Military history of Ancient Egypt becuase other ancient warfare articles are "Military history of...". There is definitely content from Ancient egyptian warfare that can be merged to Military history of Ancient Egypt, and it could be split up better. --θnce θn this island ^Speak! 16:44, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Details needed

Hey people, I have a book here that makes an off-hand reference to a tomb discovered in may 1993 in Gizeh, apparently for a "Nakh-Min", but I haven't been able to find the specifics. Can anybody help? Circeus (talk) 04:00, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Are you reading Egyptian Heart by Griffith [10]? It's probably a literary invention; I don't see any mention of it on google scholar. Unless there's a different spelling, I don't see that specific tomb. There were a number of tombs of workmen discovered at giza in the 90's by Lehner and Hawass, I don't know if any of them were named "Nakh-Min". You could try Lehner's book Complete Pyramids for more information. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 04:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

It's from a French-language yearbook, actually (I'm trying to work on 1993 and its thematic subarticle). Given that I haven't been able to fault it on anything else (the other archeological findings mentioned are the Çayönu linen, the Egyptian silk and St. Augustine Fort) and that there's a picture, I'm not tempted to ascribe it to invention. Of course the transcription is probably approximative. They mention a dating of ca. 3,200 B.C. and that it was probably a general of some sort, which suggested the similar Nakhtmin, but apparently that guy's tomb hasn't been found yet.

I haven't looked in detail at the 1993 Britannica yearbook yet, so I haven't lost hope completely to unearth enough details.Circeus (talk) 04:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Here's a suggestion though, Lehner and crew did unearth some very important materials at giza during the 1991-1992 season [11] and [12] and that is a good candidate for the 1991 article. The discoveries of the bread molds and other materials that dig season are pretty well known, and important. The discoveries show how the pyramid builders were living; how they baked their bread and brewed their beer, and how they were being fed by a strong central government which enabled such grand monument construction. This is a more famous and important discovery than any of the tombs they found. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 05:20, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I guess I'll just drop that part, but you can add a line or two to summarize that (I don't think I could really do it justice) in 1991/1992 in archaeology. Circeus (talk) 06:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

For anybody who knows a lot about hieroglyphics...

For anybody who knows a lot about hieroglyphics, List of hieroglyphs/german-Gardiner-list-translated could use a LOT of help. --θnce θn this island ^Speak! 16:46, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Project banner

It is my sincerest hope that this statement is not taken as being an attempt to subvert this project, take control over it, or any similar thing. However, the Template:AfricaProject has recently had parameters put into it to allow it to provide separate assessments for all the "Africa" projects, including this one. If in the interests of reducing banner clutter the members of this project were to choose to use that banner, please let me know and I can adjust any categories accordingly to permit it. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 00:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I've provided an opinion here, but in a nutshell, I'm against it for tracking purposes. — Zerida 01:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Egyptian religion work group articles

I noticed that the religion work group no longer has separate article assessments. It would be easy enough for me to adjust the banner to permit it to have assessments which would also feed into the main Ancient Egypt assessments, if you thought there would be any purpose in doing so. John Carter (talk) 21:11, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Heptastadion

I came across an article on Heptastadion while working through the backlog. I sourced what I could from a rudimentary google search, but I imagine I'm missing a lot. I hope I wasn't out of line in adding this project banner, as I hope someone more familiar can help expand or fill in missing information. Travellingcari (talk) 17:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Alchemy FAR Review

Alchemy has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. (old notice, archived by Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 18:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC))

Sekhem-Scepter

could someone take a look at this article by a newish user. I don't think the actual facts are hugely wrong necessarily, but then I know hardly anything about ancient Egypt. Special Random (Merkinsmum) 00:23, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Topic is legit, but needs cleanup. I'll take a look. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 00:39, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Ancient Egypt a featured article candidate

Ancient Egypt is currently a featured article candidate. You can comment on the nomination here. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 03:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

GA Sweeps

Hi there, I am part of a group of editors conducting a sweep of GA articles to check whether they meet the criteria. I have just come to the royalty section and have been reviewing the articles on some pharaohs and noticed some problems which this Wikiproject might be able to help with. Basically put, Akhenaten, Hatshepsut and Ramesses II will all require additional sourcing in places to remain as GA. (I have already passed Amenhotep I while Amenhotep III and Thutmose I are, on initial review at least, good enough to remain GA). I would much rather keep these articles than delist them and there is no serious time pressure for delisting as long as someone is willing to take these issues on board in the near future. If there is interest here then I would be happy to give the project advice on how to get these articles back to GA standard, and if not I will give the articles the standard seven day review and delist if no progress is made. Please let me know if anyone is interested in participating in this.--Jackyd101 (talk) 11:57, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Sure, I can start with Ramesses II. If you want to start a section on the talk page with issues that need to be addressed, that would be helpful. I'm sure we can find volunteers to do the other two, or I can get to them if no one jumps on board, so if you can make a list on the talk pages we can take care of any issues with them. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 14:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd be happy to, glad to see there is interest in this, its always a shame to delist something due to disinterest. I will provide a full list of improvements on the talk pages and insert ^{[citation needed]} tags where I think they are necessary. Although the templates I will leave on the talk pages have a seven day time limit I have no problem at all in giving indefinate extensions as long as work is continuing. Regards--Jackyd101 (talk) 15:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I thought I'd left a message here earlier, but I must have forgotten to save. I reviewed Thutmose I and was ready to pass it until I read the unsourced attribution in the final paragraph. If someone can sort this out (and it doesn't look like it would take too long), then I'd be happy to pass it.--Jackyd101 (talk) 19:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps I can fix this. Give me a day or two. -- Secisek (talk) 02:07, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I have decided to keep Amenhotep III as a GA, although it might be worth someone here looking over the prose, sourcing and lead just to tweak them and make them a bit better. I have also provided the first half of a review at Ramesses II. It is a big job but I will come back to it soon, although there is information there to be getting on with. I know he is not a pharoah, but Cyrus the Great apparently comes under the auspices of this project and that article needs serious attention if anyone is interested. If anyone has any questions about GA Sweeps then please get in touch. If anyone wishes to provide their own reassessments based on their superior knowledge of Ancient Egypt then please be my guest based on the instructions at WP:GAR.--Jackyd101 (talk) 18:08, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I've had to take a bit of a Wikibreak, but I had some time and I'm looking over the GA Sweeps articles I have on hold. I'm afraid that unless someone takes over Hatshepsut and Ramesses II I will have to delist them in a week or so from today. On the other hand, I'm happy to pass Thutmose I and although I haven't yet done a formal review, Akhenaten will probably pass without too much difficulty. Let me know if anyone can take these on. Regards.--Jackyd101 (talk) 10:09, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I have been updating the RII article recently, what needs to bee done to keep the GA rating ? Markh (talk) 18:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Well at the very least you need to fill the ^{[citation needed]} tags dotted through the article.--Jackyd101 (talk) 18:54, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Great Pyramid of Giza

Why was this classified as a 'Good' article? When I first looked at it a few weeks ago it was pretty bad in my opinion, with some very dubious external links and some of the body that was supposed to represent main stream thought in fact biassed against it. It also seems unbalanced. No mention of the Caliph el Ma'mun, John Greaves, Nathaniel Davison, Howard Vyse, etc. I also think that the causeway and temples should be in the article, it wasn't built as an isolate monument but part of a complex. And of course the boats.--Doug Weller (talk) 11:45, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

It is classed as a good article because it passed as such nearly two years ago, when the criteria were much less rigorous than they are today. If you leave a list of recommended improvements on the talk page then people may be able to fix it and if nothing is done then you can delist it using the instructions at WP:GAR.--Jackyd101 (talk) 13:19, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Serious work was done and I belive it would now pass GAR, however other editors are encouraged to add more sourced material to improve the article. -- Secisek (talk) 20:13, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Secisek has really worked hard on this and improved it. It still lacks a bit of the history of its exploration, but other than that it is vastly improved from what it was a few weeks ago.Doug Weller (talk) 20:36, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

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