Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Alternative medicine

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Previous discussions are archived here:

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Alternative medicine page.
Archives: 1, 2

Contents

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 00:11, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

This Wikiproject created WP:AMED as its shortcut. I don't plan on wasting my time trying to update your maze of shortcut directories. Will create a shortcut for our portal, just as soon as we create a portal. -- John Gohde (talk) 17:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
The short cut for our portal is P:CAM. -- John Gohde (talk) 17:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 18:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crucial assessment department added

This project hasn't gotten very far. The project page does not look too inviting. I don't think the main focus should be on the CAM infoboxes but on getting the project revived and attracting participants. I have now set up the project's assessment department and created a project banner to be placed on all relevant articles' talk pages. I am going to continue tagging articles which have a natural belonging within the project, and hopefully this way, more people will find their way here and chip in to effect the changes that need to be undertaken. __meco 07:25, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The main focus of this Wikiproject is not, nor has CAM infoboxes ever been, its main focus. Your current tagging of some 500+ articles with the project banner, is not any different from our earlier participants occupation with tagging / identifying articles with our various infoboxes; as far as I am concerned. The only difference is that article tagging in now currently accepted. Furthermore, another group has tagged the branches of alternative medicine articles in Wikipedia with a much bigger infobox than our orange box ever was. -- John Gohde (talk) 17:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Identical articles

It has been reported to us that Complementary_and_alternative_medicine and Alternative medicine are very nearly identical articles. Here is a "diff" of the two pages <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Complementary_and_alternative_medicine&diff=154896315&oldid=160737098>. My suggestion would be to pick one, and merge the two, and redirect the other to the one that is chosen. (I know nothing about this topic, so I don't know which to pick). Cheers! —— Eagle101Need help? 00:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I have tagged these articles for merging into the former. And I have also tagged the article on Complementary medicine likewise for merger. __meco 07:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
What exactly are you trying to accomplish, here? Please explain.
Complementary_and_alternative_medicine is currently written from the perspective of the umbrella concept. Therefore, it deserves to be an independent article, IMHO. If you want better quality CAM articles, then I suggest that you try to expand the Complementary medicine article. -- John Gohde (talk) 19:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Are we ready for a new start?

What can we do to infuse some vitality into WikiProject Alternative medicine? I think some serious work has to be put into the lay-out of the project page. It doesn't look very inviting right now. Wikipedia has some helpful guidelines on how to get a WikiProject started. I have picked up useful ideas there before. Check out WP:PROJGUIDE and then this page. Anybody with any suggestions? __meco 09:49, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I just went through the project page and freshen it up. It should now be inviting, once again, for all Wikipedians to join up. While not unnecessarily antagonizing the anti-alternative medicine elements of Wikipedia. -- John Gohde 19:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
That is good. If anyone among us has en eye for layout and visual design, it could become even better-looking. Take a look at the eye candy at WikiProject Miami for example. __meco 15:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
To me the WikiProject Miami project page looks like a jumbled mass of I do not know what. What does eye candy have to do with anything? The present project page reads like a normal Wikipedia article. I see nothing wrong with that. Show me more than 2 persons willing to work on a collaborative group effort is what I am interested in seeing. I have added a To Do List page. I think developing that page would be more productive. -- John Gohde 18:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Then we differ in how each of us view the Miami project page. __meco 18:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Setup a project sub-page and re-do the main project page. That way we can see exactly what you have in mind. -- John Gohde 18:38, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm not going to do that. I mentioned it for inspiration. There's no obligation in that. You weren't inspired. That's ok. __meco 22:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Great! The project page stays as it is. WikiPedia is not an eye candy website, but rather an encyclopedia featuring articles written in text. We want editors who can deal with vast amounts of written text. -- John Gohde 13:32, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, you know I am up for it.:) To get some vitality in we just need to get these pages used. Nice to see some action on the talkpage- maybe get more on the main page too although maybe those aren't used as much in wikiprojects? (I haven't been involved in many.) There are often AfDs we could get involved in and stuff. What I found when I decided to systematically edit the alt. med articles, was it was quite boring because there are hardly anyone watching/involved in them. Most of the pages I could edit remorselessly and no-one noticed lol. Of course on a few there was a lot of flaming etc but that was rare. Maybe we could all invite editors we've worked with who might be interested? No harm in asking:)Merkinsmum 13:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh and- any mailing lists/forums for alt med type subjects we're on, we could ask people if they'd thought of editing on wikip.Merkinsmum 13:29, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I doubt that those are the actions that we should be focusing on. At least, I've never heard of such external/aggressive recruitment attempts, and I doubt they would gain the project. One thing I do propose is that we give a heads-up here about general or specific problems that we perceive concerning a suite of articles and then discuss what could be done. I for one am rather unhappy with the infoboxes that was created when the project was all new. They don't integrate visually with how Wikipedia's infoboxes and navboxes usually look, and they have been subst'ed instead of transcluded which makes maintenance extremely cumbersome. __meco 20:37, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't know anything about maintaining a wikiproject, infoboxes etc etc, I just wanted to collaborate with other editors on articles, so, if you want to design a more attractive box or whatever please go ahead:) I'll keep checking in to see what's happening.Merkinsmum 12:14, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Being the person who first created this Wikiproject, and being the person who has managed twice to be banned from WikiPedia for promoting Alternative Medicine and this WikiProject: What exactly do you have in mind?

I have written on this topic recently before. But, I will recap in brief.

  • The project is not inactive as long as people edit articles on Alternative Medicine. A few good places to start would be the Glossary of alternative medicine and Category:Alternative medicine stubs.
  • This WikiProject does in fact live on and on ... All you have to do is write new articles.
    • Also locating lost articles and / or classifying appropriate articles as being a part of Alternative Medicine by sticking them in an appropriate alternative medicine category would be where this WikiProject can make the biggest impact. People looking for these articles need to be able to find them.
      • People in Alternative Medicine from a historical perspective.
      • History related articles. History is not quackery, it is just plain objective fact. Therefore, any alternative medicine article written from a historical perspective cannot be attacked as quackery.
    • Getting any new article to stick in WikiPedia is simply a matter of writing it from the correct perspective. I will use Wellness (alternative medicine) as a good example. All it took for keeping that formerly hotly contested article from being merged and or deleted was writing it from the correct perspective. The same goes for Glossary of alternative medicine. All it took there, was calling our key index a Glossary.
      • In other words, a little bit of planning and development in a private sandbox before releasing brand new articles can save a lot of wasted time down the road.
  • Engaging in edit wars at Alternative medicine is largely a waste of time. And, will only attract the attention of anti-alternative medicine admins. But it appears that somebody is once again pitting the Complementary and alternative medicine article against Alternative Medicine so that would be a good place to show your face as an active participant of this WikiProject.
  • You can try posting our Project Banner in the talk pages currently being edited, that reads as follows:
    • "This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Alternative medicine, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of alternative medicine. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks."
I find it curious that you should write this as it has been a couple of months now since I actually did create the project banner which basically states what you write here. As you have mentioned that your focus, rather than being active on the WikiProject pages, has been writing articles, I am also somewhat curious that you hadn't noticed how I went on to add the project banner to more than 500 such articles. __meco 08:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Excellent work!
Originally, the project put a template on all the talk pages that also featured a cool eye candy overlay effect rating system. This action resulted in our project being attacked. But, apparently the development of a Wikipedia wide assessment system is now accepted. And, makes project notices on the talk pages acceptable. It is really amazing how original features of this project that the original participants were attacked for, is now completely accepted.
I have been absent from Wikipedia due to a one year ban. And, upon my return, I wanted to keep a low profile.
I myself placed a orange infobox on hundreds of CAM articles. Most of which are still there the last time I checked. Amazingly, one variation of our infobox that I placed on alternative medicine is still there too, but is now green in color. -- John Gohde 14:24, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Our Wikiproject Banner

Looks to me like this Banner could be tighten up and made shorter to look more like the notice for WikiProject Medicine. -- John Gohde 17:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Alternative medicine, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of alternative medicine. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.
WikiProject Medicine This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at the doctor's mess.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality assessment scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance assessment scale.

Comparing the banners the WikiProject Medicine banner is more succinct. However, I personally don't think this is a significant issue. Our current banner does not differ much from a lot of WikiProject banners, and I don't think it displaying one way or the other will make any difference. If you make the change that you propose, I will not object, however. __meco 14:58, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it is not a significant issue. And, as you have stated that you would have no problems with me changing it; I have. The issue of a better graphic can come up again just as soon as someone comes up with something better. -- John Gohde (talk) 19:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
For one thing, it is referencing absolutely the wrong article. We want to be promoting our glossary of alternative medicine if nothing else. -- John Gohde 18:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Wikiproject Banner

The Holistic Approach of Alternative Medicine symbolized by the aura of man. This article is within the scope of the WikiProject on Alternative Medicine. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions on talk.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.
Our new Wikiproject symbol, with a mouse-over message, has a background that is invisible. John Gohde (talk) 16:11, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Believe it or not, but historically the Glossary of alternative medicine is the list/article that this project has been using to counter Wikipedia's alternative medicine article. Of course, if anybody here is willing and able to do a complete re-write of alternative medicine and give it a favorable point of view and get the re-write to stick with or without starting another edit war, I am more than willing than to consider promoting it.

Of course, I am sure at this point in time that the Glossary of alternative medicine needs to be cleaned up and fine tuned. (See the Open Tasks of this project.) But from prior experience, we are more likely to succeed on this glossary than in alternative medicine.

Our banner presently sounds apologetic to me. And, why are we promoting our opposition's key article (ie, alternative medicine)? That seems totally stupid to me. We should either use our glossary, or not reference any article at all.

The graphic can stay, as far as I am concerned. Mainly because I cannot think of anything better to replace it with. And, no we should not use the symbol used by physicians. -- John Gohde 13:52, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


I am curious about the use of the Yin Yang symbol to denote "Alternative Medicine". What is the rationale behind this? Have there been any other suggested images? -- Levine2112 discuss 19:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
No idea why. Would like to know myself, why. -- John Gohde 20:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't think it is appropriate at all. And though I can't readily think of something perfect, I would even think that the Rod of Asclepius image would be more apropos than the Yin-Yang. But then again, perhaps I am being too Western-centric. -- Levine2112 discuss 21:51, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I picked it. The rationale os obviously the holistic and harmonizing connotations that is carries. Feel free to come up with something else. __meco 22:05, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I do not think the banner should link to Glossary of alternative medicine. Alternative medicine or Complementary and alternative medicine are the articles that should be considered the "home base" of this project (in the main namespace). __meco 08:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Well if you were to go back two or three years of discussions pages, you would obviously know that Glossary of alternative medicine is our featured article, even if it is actually a list. It is also one of our success stories since I was able to prevent it from being deleted by calling it a glossary. Alternative medicine, as it is presently written, positively is not. Complementary and alternative medicine (completely re-written by me, at one time) is very likely to be either deleted or merged. Try reading our wikiproject page. I know that our subject is alternative medicine, but the Glossary of alternative medicine is our primary success story. This glossary is precisely how we can ignore that absolutely anti-alternative medicine article. -- John Gohde 13:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I am not up-to-date on the appearance of either the AM or the CAM article, but I believe that we have to consider these articles our main articles even though they are not of the quality presently which we would like. On another note, the editors who have made changes that you find inappropriate to those two articles should also be invited to participate in this project. We should not perceive of ourselves as a faction of the defenders of these articles against those who fiercly oppose, or are merely skeptical towards, this paradigm. I believe anyone who attempts to insert bias and POV into these articles should be met with an invitation to bring their qualms here, because I think such an action could help instill a sense of responsibility and loyalty towards consensus-building instead simply obstructionism towards a field that they dislike. __-- meco (talk) 16:47, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I am not going to be a Stockholm syndrome victim. If the world was what it ought to be and should be, then there would be no wars and no crime. This WikiProject is for dealing with Wikipedia as it is rather than with what it ought to be and should be. I have better uses of my time than editing alternative medicine. Cleaning up our glossary of alternative medicine will be my first task. A true glossary should be absolutely neutral. A glossary is supposed to be a list of terms, with absolutely no place for skepticism of any type, per the rules of Wikipedia. Work on what ever you want to. -- John Gohde (talk) 19:05, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
In addition, Talk:Alternative medicine currently has 14 archives. My user names are on most of those pages. Talk:Alternative medicine has 14 different archives for a reason. -- John Gohde (talk) 20:04, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, we cannot be champions of alternative medicine per se either. This WikiProject, like any WikiProject must allow for any user interested in this field to participate and be given a fair hearing for their views, even if their basic motivation is to fend off the lunatic fringe. __-- meco (talk) 19:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
That has never been at issue, nor have most of the objections that you have been raising for that matter. -- John Gohde (talk) 19:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The choice of the Yin-Yang symbol falls quite naturally since many (I would say "most") alternative medicine practitioners and websites use the symbol and identify with it. This is a natural result of the history of alternative medicine, which is a rather modern development, in spite of the long history of certain of its practices. To understand this, please read the wikilinks that follow. To really understand it I suggest reading Marilyn Ferguson's (read that article here) classic "The Aquarian Conspiracy".[1] There she outlined the plan for what we are now seeing actually happening. Alternative medicine as a modern movement is a direct part of this plan, the plan for getting everyone to accept New Age thinking. It is an unusual conspiracy, since it isn't a secret, but a publicized plan that is openly being carried out. Therefore the New Age/Alternative Medicine alliance is no accident, but part of a plan and therefore the use of the Yin-Yang symbol isn't an accident either. The book is fascinating. It is no novel, but a highly applauded and recognized blue print. The choice of the symbol is in direct opposition to the use of the Rod of Asclepius, which to New Agers and alternative medicine is the symbol of the devil himself, i.e big pharma, drugs, mainstream medicine, etc.. I once (when I was an alternative medicine user and practitioner) read a religious book that outlined how "fallen" Christianity was infiltrated by ungodly elements and gradually incorporated heathen practices and thus modern medicine signalized its heathenness by using a pagan symbol, the Rod of Asclepius. (Don't blame me for that. I just read it....;-) -- Fyslee / talk 01:07, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I have not seen the Yin-Yang symbol used in association with any alternative medicine practitioners. I associate Yin Yang with the philosophy/religion of Taoism and perhaps traditional Chinese medicine which, it itself, is just a subset of Alt Med. I think it is highly inappropriate to use the symbol in conjunction with alternative medicine. That being said, I have yet to come up with a better alternative; though I think we would be better off with no symbol than Yin-Yang. I just checked out the Yin and yang article here and it makes no mention of alternative medicine. I don't know. Perhaps since Alternative Medicine tends to be more holistic in its approach, a simple outline of the body human would serve us better. -- Levine2112 discuss 02:28, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
If you take a look at the talk page of the Yin and yang article you will notice that I made a post back in September regarding the use of the symbol to identify the present WikiProject. Noone has so far raised any objections. I do not share your appraisal of it being misapplied in our context, rather I agree with Fyslee that much of the alternative health movement is closely assosiated with the new age movement and easily identifies with this symbol, however acknowledging its origin in Taoism. __meco 08:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I guess my big contention is that when I see the logo the topic of "Alternative Medicine" doesn't leap into my head. I think of Taoism, Asian culture, good vs bad, etc... but Alt Med doesn't come to mind. However, I am being critical here while offering no solution. I guess that there isn't a unifying image to encompass Alt Med (probably because it is a hodge-podge of so many different kinds of disciplines and practices merely thrown together in a category because they don't - for whatever reason - fit into the mainstream category). Still, I think we can do better than Yin Yang. Again, I think a body image might serve us better. -- Levine2112 discuss 17:28, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Not a bad idea. __-- meco (talk) 19:08, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
To be usable the image has to be uploaded to Wikipedia and pass copyright questions. -- -- John Gohde (talk) 19:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


Well, I copy-and-pasted the image into Illustrator, flipped it, redrew the lines entirely myself, applied some effects in Illustrator and thus turned it into my own work. We'll see how the other editors who check for copyright feel about this though. Anyhow, here's how it will look in our project banner. What do you all think? -- Levine2112 discuss 23:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject on Alternative Medicine. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions on talk.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.

Here's another way to go. This might suggest an "aura" which is associated more with Vitalism and hence Alt Med. -- Levine2112 discuss 23:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject on Alternative Medicine. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions on talk.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.

Wow! That looks really good. The Aura and colors tie it in with many of the (related) things that underlie many forms of alternative medicine: energy medicine, TCM, and of course vitalism, as you mentioned. Good work. -- Fyslee / talk 23:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Let's see what the members of this project think. (Why aren't you a member of this project?) -- Levine2112 discuss 00:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I vote for the aura version, but I think it should be a tad smaller in size. John Gohde (talk) 04:31, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I think it looks beautiful. __meco (talk) 08:36, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Smaller logo

How's this? -- Levine2112 discuss 21:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject on Alternative Medicine. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions on talk.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.
I have updated our project banner with our new graphic. I stuck with the original size. It did not look quite as good smaller and Medicine's graphic is also rather tall. Plus, I added a mouse-over message. John Gohde (talk) 15:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Active vs. Inactive Participants

Discounting those which have resigned from Wikipedia or haven't been around for one year or more, the list below contains 11 names.

User name Talk page Special interests or contributions Medical qualification Remarks
John Gohde, aka Mr-Natural-Health Talk natural health, natural therapy and Psychosocial or Mind - Body Interventions, as well as the founder and developer of this WikiProject. User account has been inactive since June, 2004. However User:John Gohde is currently active.
Ashibaka Talk alternative medicine and other areas of pseudoscience
Heidimo Talk traditional Chinese medicine, medical intuition, auriculotherapy I have practical expertise in these fields as well as writing/proofreading/editing skills. I teach and write on these topics regularly.
irismeister Talk Interested in health, non-visual eye physiology, free speech and free thinking. User was blocked permanently in January 2006
Karen S Vaughan Talk Interested in forming a subproject on Herbalism. I have written or extensively modified a number of articles on herbs, herbalists and herbal medicine, adding references, correcting information from secondary sources and improving accuracy. Clinical herbalist and licensed acupuncturist in NY State, have written, been interviewed for books and television on the subject. Also certified in essential oils and have had various energy medicine trainings.
Greenman Talk
DryGrain Talk
xyberdoc Talk Homer Lim, MD from St Carlos Medical Center This user has not been active since May 2006 (and has only 10 edits combined on Wikipedia)
ALargeElk Talk This user has not been active since April 2005
SargonZ Talk First year osteopathic medical student at Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine. This user has not been active since May 2006 (and has only 10 edits combined on Wikipedia)
Smithfarm Talk
Ballista Talk
AnaBryce Talk This is one of my primary areas of interest. I have been learning and working with various alternative healing methods for about 4-5 years. This user has not been active since October 2006
Merkinsmum Talk I've studied reiki and other forms of CAM But also scepticism, so think I can write with NPOV
meco Talk I'm interested in holism, thus systems that distance themselves from the reductionism of the current scientific (and in particular the allopathic medical) paradigm are of interest to me. I have a particular interest in the work and legacy of Wilhelm Reich, partly because my great grandfather worked closely with him. Among articles I have created I would name in particular Sex economy (essay). I have worked as a registered nurse in Norway (I am Norwegian), but am now wholly involved in what I label God-work.
William Courson Talk Interested in discussing all topics relevant to ayurvedic medicine and ayurvedic medical education in India and abroad. Special interests include ayurvedic 'subtle therapies' and the place of energy healing in ayurvedic praxis. Clinical herbalist and ayurvedic practitioner in New Jersey (USA). Author of numerous professional and popular articles on the subjects of ayurveda, herbalism (ayurvedic and western) and energy healing, esp. Reiki. Usui Reiki Master, also certified in Bach and other systems of flower essence therapy. Director, New Jersey Institute of Ayurveda (distance education program for ayurvedic practitioners). Principal, Vedic Energy Healing, L.L.C.
Friarslantern Talk personal experience with use of a.m.; philosphy, history and psychology of science as relates to acceptance of a.m. none --

[edit] Proposed deletion: Mosaraf Ali

Mosaraf Ali (via WP:PROD on 2007-11-17) Kept

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
updated --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 03:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
I have taken care of this article. There exists plenty of first-rate references that can still be applied to expanding this article further though. __meco (talk) 10:34, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Group Eye-Candy Project

If our wikiproject wants to make an impact upon alternative medicine articles in Wikipedia as well as advertise the fact that we are now active and actually have a group of participants working collaboratively on projects; then we should create a Portal. Since it appears that alternative medicine has been left out of the new concept of Wikipedia portals.

Study Portal:Medicine for an example of what a portal is.

The first order of business is to decide if we want to call it Portal:Alternative medicine or Portal:Complementary and alternative medicine.

Next, we need to decide if our new portal should be a sub-portal of Portal:Medicine. Both by name and category structure it appears that we fit into medicine. Or, should we look into other possibilities?

And, we also need to pick an existing portal to model our new proposed portal after. -- John Gohde (talk) 16:41, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I have no objections to the creation of a portal. I've never been much involved in portals so I don't know how beneficial this might be. __meco (talk) 09:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
It appears to me that the development of portals came from finally recognizing that categories are next to useless for finding articles in Wikipedia. Users prefer written text that visually organizes information in a more manageable form.
Both our glossary of alternative medicine and alternative medicine approach the topic of alternative medicine from a different perspective. Alternative medicine has a debate, Pro or Con, perspective. The proposed portal allows us to approach alternative medicine from yet another perspective. I have definite ideas on how to do this. I would like to write the portal from the point of view of the Contemporary use of Alternative Medicine. This write up lasted in our category page from June 2004 to around February 2005. A variation of it was also in another version of the CAM article for over one year, but was eventually deleted. Of course, it will have to be converted into multiple display boxes. The portal will allow us to display a very large number of links to alternative medicine topics of our own choosing as well as to categories and wikiprojects, like this one.
I am voting for Portal:Complementary and alternative medicine.
The bottom line is, if we don't write it, somebody else will. John Gohde (talk) 16:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree that "Portal:Complementary and alternative medicine" would be the preferred route. Portals are fairly new territory for me so forgive me if I should tread slowly here. -- Levine2112 discuss 22:26, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Next step, is to pick a portal to model our portal after. -- John Gohde (talk) 04:31, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] We Now Have A Portal

Creating a portal is a messy can of worms. So, I went ahead and created one using the recommended box portal layout. I have gotten it to be recognizable as a CAM portal, Here it is: Portal:Complementary and Alternative Medicine. Its current status is a portal under construction. There is still plenty of editing to be done on it, before it can be offically listed.

Editing it can still be a can of worms. The Selected article, Selected picture, and Contemporary Use of CAM display boxes have a ramdom number generator in them, which I have set to 1. Let us keep it that way, at least until we have developed the portal well enough to be released. But, apparently you can have more than one copy of each box which can be automatically randomly changed.

This random feature was driving me crazy until I figured out what was going on. -- John Gohde (talk)

Excellent start! Thank you, John Gohde. -- Levine2112 discuss 20:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
The portal has been officially listed.
Editing still needs to be done. But, it is good enough to release. Basically, the most important stuff is on top. The stuff at the very bottom can be updated at a later date. -- John Gohde (talk) 05:26, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User Template

This user is a member of
WikiProject Alternative medicine.



What do you think? -- Levine2112 discuss 03:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Looks good. -- John Gohde (talk) 04:17, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PROD: Bioecological medicine

Bioecological medicine (via WP:PROD on 2007-11-30) Deleted

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 03:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
updated --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 21:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
On these VfD stub articles, if the article is related to CAM the procedure would be to first add the definition to the glossary of alternative medicine before physically deleting it. -- John Gohde (talk) 12:59, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
According to the categorization, it is related to Alternative Medicine; if that is incorrect, the categorization should be removed (I can do that edit if you let me know either way). Also, I am not nominating for deletion; I am informing so that knowledgeable editors can determine if the article is worth saving or should be allowed to pass quietly into the night. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 13:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it is alternative medicine. I found one reference to it in PubMed. Put the definition into our Glossary. But, I am of the opinion that useage of the term "Bioecological medicine" in the alternative medicine community is almost unknown and must have been introduced not much more than one year ago. Most simply would refer to it as probiotics. There are only 60 hits when the exact phrase is Googled. And, most of the references are to this WikiPedpia article. -- John Gohde (talk) 02:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] We Got a major problem

Somebody wiped out all the editing I did at Complementary and Alternative Medicine without any history being recorded. -- John Gohde (talk) 02:41, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

There appears to be two distinct articles due to case-sensitivity of Wikipedia: Complementary and alternative medicine and Complementary and Alternative Medicine. Perhaps a merge is in order? -- Levine2112 discuss 02:53, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
How do you manage to post so fast? I redirected the newest version to the oldest version. I consider this article to be very important, and don't want something like this to mess it up. If anybody wants to merge the text is still avialable as the file was not deleted. -- John Gohde (talk) 03:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I had my Watchlist surgically implanted into my cerebellum. ;-) -- Levine2112 discuss 03:19, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I, myself, merged the material on NCCAM. This makes the CAM article even bigger and more unique. The rest of the material seems to be a confusion over the fact that the English Edition of Wikipedia caters to the English speaking world, which is namely the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and England. -- John Gohde (talk) 12:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yet Another Problem

Somebody is trying to have Portal:Complementary and Alternative Medicine/Quotes, a part of our CAM Portal deleted. Quotes are a standard feature of many portals. Everyone needs to vote on this process. -- John Gohde 14:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

This page was nominated for deletion on 29 November 2007. The result of the discussion was keep. -- John Gohde 15:09, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Yay! -- Levine2112 discuss 19:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removing Articles from CAM

I am wondering if there is a way to remove articles from the CAM project that are not medical based? Therapeutic horseback riding is designated as part of the CAM project, but therapeutic horseback riding is a recreational or sport activity that teaches people with disabilities to ride horses. The requirements for teaching therapeutic riding are being over 18 years of age and passing a weekend workshop. This is not a Complementary Alternative Medical treatment.

However, hippotherapy is a medical treatment by a licensed medical health professional using the movement of the horse to provide functional outcomes. This would be appropriate to be listed under the CAM project.

Is there anyway to remove an aticle from the CAM project?

69.34.62.89 (talk) 15:37, 6 December 2007 (UTC)KarmaAnais (therapeutic riding instructor and occupational therapist)

While horseback riding is recreational, Therapeutic horseback riding positively is not. The word therapeutic certainly does not indicate a sport activity. While more than one WikiProject could claim this article, as a non-drug and a non-surgical treatment option, therapeutic horseback riding certainly would fall under the CAM umbrella. -- John Gohde (talk) 16:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree, that article is an appropriate topic for this Wikiproject. --Jack-A-Roe (talk) 09:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments requested re merge of Complementary and Alternative Medicine-related articles

There has been discussion of this in several places with varying results. To attain a more clear consensus, with input from more editors, comments are invited at Talk:Complementary and alternative medicine#Request for Comments: merge proposal for complementary and alternative medicine articles.

To be clear - I'm not advocating for the change, just requesting discussion from interested editors... Thanks. --Jack-A-Roe (talk) 05:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

  • See Good article nominations. A neutral third party said that article should receive a GA rating. So, I have nominated it. But, since I have edited it extensively I am barred from the GA review process. Everyone should vote on its good article status. -- John Gohde (talk) 03:29, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed deletion: Reiki history

Reiki history (via WP:PROD on 2007-12-14) Kept

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 10:24, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
updated --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 21:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Germanic New Medicine / request for help

Hi! Could somebody, who knows enough about this matter, help? This article seems to involve legal and medical aspects... See main article Ryke Geerd Hamer... I personally would like to delete that article, but there seem to be quite rampant proponents for that article... --Homer Landskirty (talk) 14:59, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed deletion: Yo San University

Yo San University (via WP:PROD on 2008-01-04)

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 21:16, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RfC on Talk:Biopsychiatry controversy

An RfC has been created on Talk:Biopsychiatry controversy on the subject: "Is the majority viewpoint of the psychiatric profession, and particularly of the psychiatric research community, that the biopsychiatric model of psychiatry is, by and large, accepted or rejected?" Comments from editors involved in this article/project may prove useful. HrafnTalkStalk 06:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Voting requested on the latest merge attempt of Complementary and Alternative Medicine-related articles

To attain a more clear consensus, with input from more editors, comments are invited at Talk:Complementary and alternative medicine. Vote at the bottom of Comments by involved editors. -- John Gohde (talk) 17:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-psychiatry

The article Anti-psychiatry is currently tagged for {{POV}}. Since this is within the scope of this project, I was wondering if some editors here would like to improve the article to cover more viewpoints -- in particular, the conventional view that psychiatry is ethical and efficacious. At the moment there are problems in the article of WP:UNDUE weight to minority viewpoints, as well as the common problem of insufficient citations. Any new references you can add (from sources not already used) would benefit the article.

The most pressing needs are (1) references from sources skeptical to the anti-psychiatry movement, supporting particular practices of existing psychiatry; (2) scientific studies on the effectiveness of psychiatry, ideally neutral; and (3) references from those supporting anti-psychiatry, showing it as a broader movement than the current narrow viewpoint in the article.

CRGreathouse (t | c) 14:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Donna Eden AfD

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Donna Eden Totnesmartin (talk) 19:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fringe articles added

I added Mobile phone radiation and health‎ and Electrical sensitivity to this project. Do others agree that these belong here? Do we need to adjust the project scope to encompass them? __meco (talk) 15:35, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

They aren't within the scope of this project, and I don't see how they could be without this project being changed a lot. Those two articles have nothing to do with C/AM. --88.84.144.193 (talk) 22:20, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RfC on Orthomolecular medicine

See Talk:Orthomolecular_medicine#Request for comment on the attribution of criticism in the lead, all comments welcome. Tim Vickers (talk) 17:34, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] MAKE CITING EASY PLEASE - FROM FRANK HILLS

I have been doing research since 1959. I have many articles pub lished, and 13 books so far. It is usual to support quotes, statements, et aal, with citatioons which are both meaningful AND very easy for anyone to find and so confirm. Some of the articles in Wiki do not have page numbers, or something like that, thus req —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.226.241.209 (talk) 19:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] PLEASE MAKE CITATION EXACT

fEW PROPLE WILL READ A LONG ARTICLE TO CONFIRM A CITATION, SO PLEASE PAGINATE OR USE SECTIONS OR SOMETHING. THANKS! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.226.241.209 (talk) 19:24, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion for an article

I believe that an article on Health Kinesiology would be useful. I gather that this form of therapy has a few practioners around and might not be as popular as others. Do we have anyone here who knows about it? Here is a website: [2].--Filll (talk) 16:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RfC on Chiropractic re effectiveness of chiropractic care

Please see Talk:Chiropractic#RfC: Effectiveness of chiropractic care. Comments are welcome; please see Talk:Chiropractic#RfC: Comments on claim of bias and proposal for fix for comments so far. Eubulides (talk) 16:27, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Help: Nelsons (Natural Health)

I would appreciate if some people could review the article I've created for the natural health firm Nelsons. I've added some basic factual copy with a few refs, but it could really do with some peer review and further refs to avoid it being deleted out of hand. Thanks --ThePaintedOne (talk) 10:05, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Horstmann technique

Can anyone point me towards independent reliable sources establishing the notability of the Horstmann technique? I prodded it a few weeks ago, and the prod was removed with a bare assertion that such exist. The article creator has not, however, seen fit to share what any of these sources might be. It is not mentioned at PubMed or NCCAM, nor is it listed in the Gale Encyclopedia of Alternative Medicine or other usual suspects. All of the internet hits seem to be either substantively copied from the originator's website or mere directory listings. While this does confirm that someone invented this technique and started teaching classes, it does not provide anything with which to work for improving the article. - Eldereft ~(s)talk~ 05:13, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I have nominated it for deletion here. - Eldereft ~(s)talk~ 16:58, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AfD :Nelsons (homeopathy)

The Nelsons (homeopathy) page has been proposed for deletion.--ThePaintedOne (talk) 22:04, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Result was non-admin keep by consensus.--ThePaintedOne (talk) 09:31, 2 June 2008 (UTC)