Wikipedia talk:WikiProject AFL/Archive 4

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] AFL season match statistics

I notice that the 1998 through to 2007 seasons are complete (but not entirely consistent). If you would like me to, I could lend a hand inputting all the historical match results and ladder for years prior to 1997. I have from 1897 to 2007 in spreadsheet form so it should be relatively easy to generate the appropriate wiki-text to paste into the AFL season articles. Contact me if there is anything I should be aware of before I attempt this. CoreyPlover 02:42, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

That would absolutely fantastic. Please use the {{AFL xxx}} templates for team names, as you will already see in most existing game results. Remy B 09:46, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Great. A few things I have thought about:
  • What is the reason for the {{AFL xxx}? Is it just for naming consistency? Would I be right in assuming that once a naming convention is firmly established, the static nature of these templates would warrant substitution rather than transclusion? How about past clubs / Sydney-South Melbourne / North Melbourne-Kangaroos?
  • Any scope for including a small thumbnail of the club emblem / club colors with these {{AFL xxx}} templates? Or maybe such icons should go outside the template and in the results tables to avoid stuffing up inline transclusions?
  • How about a similar template for AFL venues? These would also possibly come in handy for venue name changes. For historical match results, should I use the historical or the current venue name?
  • I have seen the NRL season results articles and was thinking of using the same table design for AFL seasons because (as much as it pains me to say) these NRL tables look quite snazzy. Thoughts? CoreyPlover 15:26, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
The templates are there for consistency, but I don't really have any opinion on whether they need to be subst'd. I don't know if any past team templates exist - feel free to create them. We can't add club logos because it breaches fair use to use them as decoration. Club colours that aren't the logo just look tacky, if you ask me, and don't contribute much to the article. I think they look very tacky on the NRL pages. Templates for AFL venues would be great because there are a lot of links to redirects out there. I'm not sure about historical ground naming - maybe just go with what has already been done. But if I can convince you of anything - PLEASE don't use those awful NRL tables. Tables of statistics should be as minimal as possible, and the NRL tables just try to take up far more room than is necessary. They also get contorted as the text starts to wrap when you look on a lower resolution. Good luck! Remy B 02:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
We have {{AFL SM}} and {{AFL Nor}} templates for South Melbourne and North Melbourne respectively. Beamerized 05:15, 3 October 2007 (UTChellow hello
Even they can be anachronistic. Apart from that, why do we include "Swans" and so on? It should just be South Melbourne - and there's no particular reason for having a template, anyway, other than making mass changes like this. JPD (talk) 09:01, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I've found the templates have been really handy for keeping some consistency in the links. Before they were used there were a lot of links to suburbs or to redirects of the real club articles. Remy B 10:41, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
The templates are alright I guess. If they are simply for naming consistency they can be subst'd later, and they prevent spelling mistakes or links to old named redirects. Templates are most useful however for shared design or content so that one change can propogate to all, say, 100+ VFL/AFL season articles. But team names should remain absolutely static. Even mergers / renaming (like Footscray -> Western Bulldogs) can (and I argue, should) be handled by redirects because you specifically want to show, and keep the original team name at the time of the match. Yes, a template will enable you to do away with the redirects, but those redirects actually give you more flexibility because they give you a sort of version controlled / historical encyclopedic content. Besides which, you need 2 templates anyway (in this case AFL Foo and AFL WB). Having them point to two different articles which then redirect to "Western Bulldogs" is actually more flexible than editing the AFL Foo template to point at the "Western Bu
Templates only help with consistency when a consistent change is made, as CoreyPlover says. When pages where being moved about between things like Adelaide Football Club and Adelaide Crows, they could keep up with the change, avoiding the resulting redirects. Apart from that, they only give consistency if they are consistently used, which is about as likely as having consistency to start with. I agree that there should be a Footscray -> Western Bulldogs redirect, but there is no reason why a {{AFL Foo}} should not bypass that redirect, saving the servers. The important thing is that the text on the page uses the correct historical name - there is no need to reach the relevant article via a redirect with the correct name. JPD (talk) 12:13, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I've finished all the VFL premiership season statistics. With regards to the AFL templates, I'm currently designing a few possible replacements / extensions to them, will update you all when I have something to show.CoreyPlover 11:27, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism Patrols

I have been seeing a lot of vandalism lately, often repeated, multiple and with only some picked up by the bots. I think with trade week, the draft, school holidays and increasing awareness of WP, it will only get worse. Can I ask all editors to use the Recent Changes page to help keep an eye on more than just their normal watchlist. Add this to your favourites, I find it very useful (if you use IE7 or a similar browser with the ability to have multiple home pages on different tabs), to have it open up in a background tab behind your preferred homepage - with your watchlist on another tab. If you find a vandal, always check their recent contributions to see what else they've done. Warnings sometimes work, but often with dynamic IPs, they are pretty useless. Sometimes you need to be drastic to restore it to an unvandalised state... as I'm about to do to Carlton Football Club. Keep an eye out for the subtle vandals too... the ones who just change a number here, a year there etc, very difficult to repair unless you catch them in the act, which can be difficult is lots of obvious vandalism happens around them. The-Pope 17:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

In partial relationship to this, I have to say that, beyond Pokeman related articles, footballers' articles would have to be amongst the lowest quality I have seen on wikipedia (and obviously that's saying something). That low quality has nothing to do with the good denizens of this project and almost all to do with semi-literate 14 year olds writing what they know about. So while not outright vandalism it would be good to reign in some of the less notable efforts of well meaning 14 year olds. --Roisterer 04:55, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I have to agree with both comments. I have recently seen heaps of subtle vandalism of articles, like changing numbers or names, and thats just from my watchlist. It is frustrating to admit, but I am sure many articles are out there with vandalised statistics and it might take a very very long time for them to get noticed. Remy B 08:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Squad templates

Each club seems to have two templates which list current squad members. For example: {{West Coast Eagles current squad}}

 view • talk • edit 
   

Rookies:

  • 36 Callum Wilson
  • 40 Will Sullivan
  • 43 Ashley Arrowsmith
  • 45 Ryan Davis
  • 47 Lewis Stevenson

[1]

and {{West Coast player squad}}

v • d • e
West Coast Eagles Football Club – current squad

1 Brown • 2 LeCras • 4 Kerr • 5 Stenglein • 6 Nicoski • 7 Fletcher • 8 Waters • 10 Braun • 11 Priddis • 13 Masten • 14 Seaby • 15 C. Jones • 16 MacKenzie • 17 Kennedy • 18 Ebert • 19 Houlihan • 20 Cox • 21 Lynch • 22 Graham • 23 Glass • 24 Rosa • 25 Hurn • 26 Butler • 27 McKinley • 28 S.Selwood • 29 Hansen • 30 Spangher • 31 Schofield • 32 Embley • 33 Thomson • 34 Notte • 35 Armstrong • 37 A.Selwood • 38 B. Jones • 39 Hunter • 41 Staker • 44 Wirrpanda • 45 McNamara •

 *Davis •  *Arrowsmith •  *McGinnity •  *Stevenson •  *Sullivan •  *Wilson •  *Wilkes •

Coach: Worsfold

* denotes Rookie Listed players

The first one is transcluded in each club article and in List of current AFL team squads while the second one appears in each player article. This seems a bit silly from a maintenance point of view and that I think the 1st one is a bit plain. I propose that we rationalise this and have just one, and preferably the second as its less bulky. An edit link can be easily added. Comments? —Moondyne 05:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I second your motion. --Roisterer 05:47, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I should add that the only downside I can see to doing this is that the second one doesn't show player first names. Is that a big issue? —Moondyne 06:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, as the first one is used as and looks like part of the text of the article, while the second looks like and is used as a navigation box. This is one of the reasons why one contains first names and the other doesn't. JPD (talk) 08:16, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Maintenance is actually fairly simple, as it's a 2 or 3 times a year (delistings, trades, draft) type of major updates, with maybe updating captains, rookies at other times. The first one has more room for listing captains, veterans, leadership groups, flags (only joking!) etc. I helped make the first one, and thought the second one was great when it was made. I think they both serve their purpose. The-Pope 10:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I am happy with both but would prefer not to see any reference to veterans or leadership groups. Captains and vice-captains (if any of both) are worthy of a marker. Remy B 10:31, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin Sheedy

Someone has made this a disambiguation page because the other Kevin Sheedy was a pretty prominent Irish soccer player. So because of this all wikilinks for him need to be changed to Kevin Sheedy (Australian footballer) and after a look through I can say there are atleast 100. Does this have to be done manually or is there some bot that can do this? Crickettragic 09:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Bit of a pain, isn't it. I don't beleive the page should have been changed, it had been how it was for a long time. Oh well. I haven't seen a bot that can change the links. Times1 08:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New template

A user has added 2007 Port Adelaide Grand Final side to a bunch of Port players. Apart from the fact that as a template it should be on a template page I think it is taking it too far having a template for premiership runners up. Already these Port player's have a current squad template and many have the 2004 premiership players template which I made a while back so surely we don't need this one? Anyone support the removal of this template? Crickettragic 22:40, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Absolute support for removal. Template overload. Even if it is kept (and templated) it needs redoing as it is verging on an attack with the reference to the record loss. -- Mattinbgn\talk 22:53, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it should have been created as a template, and no, it isn't necessary. -- Longhair\talk 22:54, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I've moved it to Template:2007 Port Adelaide Grand Final side for now. -- Longhair\talk 03:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Player template

User:Boomtish appears to be applying a new version of the player template, the main differences being the removal of details regarding debut games and inclusion of biographical details. This would be a good place to discuss such changes, and if the are seen to be a good thing (I tend to think they are), then I'm sure Boomtish would appreciate help in rolling the new template out! JPD (talk) 10:40, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

  • I felt the information box should provide quick, yet succinct and comprehensive details regarding each player. Looking at other player info boxes for other more-established sports on wikipedia (such as soccer and basketball), they seem to have achieved this. I felt previous information such as debut team, debut opponent, debut stadium etc was not of major importance (when I want to know who a certain player is, I want to know the main details), and that it overlapped in any case under the 'playing career' section of the box (which outlines the time spent under respective clubs - which I've also tidied up into a box).

In my opinion, I feel most of what should be in the box is currently there as of now, although of course any additional suggestions are welcomed. The only other additions I've thought of including are headings for Current Team, Guernsey Number, Draft Position Picked, and maybe nicknames (although this is very secondary, particularly since it's an irrelevant matter to many players). Thoughts? Can the format be tidied up more? Boomtish (talk) 12:54, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I have tried to create a new player infobox using a format used in cricket and soccer player infoboxes, but modified to suit Aussie rules. I think it's quite good, but I've had a few problems, like the whole box with details won't appear on a page. First of all can i have some feedback about the box, and secondly, if anyone knows how to fix it, can you please!! Thanks, Allied45 (talk) 06:47, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] South Australian Team of the Century

Just wanted to get a bit of a consensus on whether of not this warrants a page. The page was made by Rogerthat almost 2 yrs ago but it isn't a team put together by the SANFL rather the guy who made the website www.fullpointsfooty.com which I and others often use as references. So it is far from the 'official' South Australian Team of the Century. Crickettragic (talk) 05:56, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it's fairly obvious that an unofficial and personal list like that doesn't belong on an encyclopedia. Remy B (talk) 12:33, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Agree. JPD (talk) 13:26, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
My thoughts as well, I'll nominate it for deletion. Crickettragic (talk) 00:17, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Is there a SANFL sactioned SA Team of the Century? --Roisterer (talk) 01:34, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Get it off Wkipedia now! This sort of stuff doesn't belong here. Unless it was officially sanctioned by the SANFL or AFL, it shouldn't be here. Allied45 (talk) 23:12, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
It's clearly not suitable for Wikipedia. Rather than wait out the proposed deletion delay or waste time at AfD, I've zapped it now. -- Longhair\talk 23:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)