Talk:Weston Reserve University

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It is not good enough to simply revert changes. Please discuss your issues here, and preferably register so that editors can carry on a dialogue. Just zis Guy you know? 19:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Accreditation

The "school" has 4 PO Boxes with two being in North America, but no North American accreditation/approval. It claims accreditation from groups recognized by the UNESCO (a United Nations organization). Yet, these groups (and the school itself) are absent from UNESCO's page. It claims accreditation from the royal family in Kuwait, and does not have an address in Kuwait nor an independent source for this claim. A google search of the accreditor who WRU claims is approved by the UN, "International Association of Educators for World Peace," brings up The Open International University for Alternative Medicine of India who also proudly claims has accreditation. Yet, this school is also missing from UNESCO's list[1] of approved schools and seems suspect as well. Arbusto 05:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear Mr, are you really a Christian? Watch the accreditation. Can you read? There also is a Kuwaiti address. Kuwait is a monarchy. In 2003, Weston Reserve University received a Royal Charter from Kuwait, conferring recognition and accreditation as an institution of higher learning and granting authority to operate within and outside that state.The Royal Accreditation is the highest accreditation. [2]
You read Royal Charter.[3]
The university is accredited. Your assertions are wrong. You offend the royal house in Kuwait.
What Is Alternative (or “Non-Traditional”) Education?
Excerpted from the Introduction of `The Alternative Guide to College Degrees & Non-Traditional Higher Education` by John B. Bear, Ph.D. (Published by the Stonesong Press, a division of Grosset & Dunlap, Inc., 1980).
A few years ago, if you lived in the United States and wanted to earn a college degree - a bachelor, masters, or doctorate - you really had only one alternative: Go to a campus, take class after class, year after year, until you had completed enough units for the degree. Normally this used to take four years for a bachelor’s degree, one or two more for a master’s degree, and two or three years beyond that for a doctorate. There has truly been a revolution in higher education in America since 1970. In essence of this revolution can be summarized in a single sentence: Today, instead of getting credit (and degrees) from a physical, formal, traditional university, you can get credit (and degrees) for what you learn on your own, in your own time, non-traditionally.
The Comparative Argument of Alternative Education:
1. Traditional education awards degrees based on the time served and the credits earned. Alternative education awards degrees based on demonstrated competencies and skills.
2. Traditional education bases degrees requirements on the medieval concept of some “liberal” education and some specialized education. Alternative education bases degrees requirements on an agreement between student and faculty designed to help the student achieve his or her career and personal goals.
3. Traditional education considers the years from eighteen to twenty-two as the optimum time for attending college. Alternative education assumes that learning is desirable throughout life, and degrees should be available at any age.
4. Traditional education views faculty as transmitters of knowledge and information. Alternative education views faculty as counselors who help students learn how to learn.
5. Traditional education aims at producing a well-educated “finished product” ready to enter the job market or graduate school. Alternative education aims at producing lifelong learners, capable of change and responding through life to their own evolving needs and those of society.
Comments by the Carnegie Commission on Non-Traditional Education
Excerpted from a study funded by the Carnegie Commission and conducted by the Educational Testing Institute.
Almost as many Americans seek some form of education outside the established educational system as within it... There is, then a very large group of people outside the formal structure of education with obvious educational needs. If society is to develop mechanisms to help meet these needs, an essential early step is to analyze the populations reached by the non-formal systems... A new set of terms and concepts is being developed, some of which represent very old ideas and all of which, like other innovations, will doubtless be carried to excess...
The Commission believes that the potential of these approaches outweighs the possibility of excess. The rigidities of time, space, and academic credentialing have worked directly to foster elitism in higher education. The aims of education properly involve the achievement of competence, understanding, knowledge, and sensitivity. If attention is focused on diverse means to these objectives and not on rigid structure, many people not now thought to be “college material” can achieve these goals...
Non-traditional study is more an attitude than a system and thus can never be defined except tangentially. This attitude puts the student first and the institution second, concentrates more on the formers need than the latter’s convenience, encourages diversity of individual opportunity rather than uniform prescription, and de-emphasizes time, space, and even course requirements in favor of competence and, where applicable, performance. It has concern for the learner of any age and circumstance, for the degree aspirant as well as the person who finds sufficient reward in enriching life through constant, periodic, or occasional study...
In sum, the Commission has come away from its study of the proliferation and growth of alternate educational systems and new techniques with a conviction that both are developments to be welcomed rather than feared. Some alternate enterprises have already shown themselves to be equal in quality to formal educational offerings and occasionally better... Some technological advances offer even greater promise for expanding clientele, offering high-quality learning, and lowering costs per student. The Commission believes that both the systems and forms deserve close attention, encouragement and assistance... 195.93.60.69 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
Where is the proof the "school" is accredited by a legitmate organization? According to the list of accredited schools in Kuwait the school is not accredited[4]. More interestingly, since the school's "headquarters"/PO Box is in Canada shouldn't they have accreditation from Canada/North America? Well, they don't have that either.[5] How about the organization that gave them "accreditation," is that a valid accreditating organization? Nope, making that strike three.[6] Arbusto 10:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Weston Reserve University received a Royal Charter from Kuwait, conferring recognition and accreditation as an institution of higher learning and granting authority to operate within and outside that state.The Royal Accreditation is the highest accreditation. [2]
You read Royal Charter.[3]
The university is accredited. Your assertions are wrong. You offend the royal house in Kuwait. 195.93.60.69 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
Prove its accredited. Prove the Kuwait royal charter is an academically recognized accreditation for mail order degrees in North America.
Also how come a school that supposedly has a "royal charter from Kuwait" doesn't even operate/have an address in that country? Arbusto 10:58, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I second Arbusto; a Canadian university operating only with a claimed royal charter from Kuwait, and not even listed on UNESCO's list sound extremely fishy. I only wish it was me who had "offended the royal house in Kuwait" :). Thue | talk 11:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
We don't talk about Nordamerica. There are also other states in the world !!! The WRU is accredited by the royal house and this suffices!195.93.60.69 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
How does it suffice for the academic community? What role does the Kuwait royal family have in investigating the educational merits of schools? What is the process? How long have they been doing this? Is this usual? Arbusto 11:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

UNESCO Lisbon Recognition Convention Section IX. Article IX 3 adopt 1993 UNESCO Report Ongoing Distance Learning Projects in Different Regions of the World UNESCO Regional Convention of the Recognition of Studies, Certificates, Diplomas, Degrees and other Academic Qualifications in Higher Education US Department of Education National Center of Education Statistics . Defining and Assessing Learning: Exploring Competency-Based Initiatives. NCES 2002-159, prepared by Elizabeth A. Jones and Richard A Vorhees, with Karen Paulsen, for the Council on the National Postsecondary Education Cooperative Working Group on Competency 195.93.60.69 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)

What does this mean? Your edit includes UNESCO, but UNESCO does not list the school as accredited. Your edit includes the US Department of Education, but they do not list the as accredited. I notice the only form of currency the "school" accepts for lump sum payment degrees is US dollars. Arbusto 11:49, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
In an absolute monarchy you determine the royal house what is usual The royal house is the highest authority in the country. The WRU isn't a Canadian university! The university is a distance university. Merely The office of the Presidentens is in Canada. Many representatives are in other countries.
A university belongs to the country where she was charter. The university has a royal charter. This is the highest form of the document. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_charter
You don't want to understand it. Read the EU right. Read the articles of UNESCO.
Sorry, I don't mean this personally but there aren't only Nordamerica but also other countries and rights.195.93.60.69 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
Fact: Only accepts money for degrees in lump sum payments in US dollars. Fact: Lacks accreditation in the US. Fact: Lacks accreditation in Kuwait (according to UNESCO). Fact: The charter claim is only on the school's webpage and cannot be independently verified. Arbusto 12:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Fact is in my humble opinion that Kuwait does not forward any information about its institutions to the UNESCO at all. So they just list what they already know. Fact is that allegations made by arbusto e.g. that Weston Reserve University sounds like Case Western University are selfexplanatory, i.e. they are wrong... at least for everybody who simply can decipher latin letters.

Fact is that an advantage like knowing the total cost of a distant learning study is displayed by a prejudiced moderator like arbusto as being a disadvantage and/or a possibility to 'purchase' a degree.

Fact is that arbusto repeatedly removed the link to the university's royal charter and calls the process of replacing the said link 'vandalism.

Fact is that arbusto the moderator disables the possiblities for neutral contributors to enhance or correct his biased version.

Fact is that this behaviour displayes finally nothing more than mud throwing in a highly unethical manner.

Fact is that Wikipedia is all but a neutral dictionary but merely a mire for negative propaganda. If look for e.g. at the Steven Seagal article and read that a moderator alike has nothing better to do than to describe that said actor lost control over his bowels than one should clearly know what this here really is.

A forum for airheads who demand all from their counterparts and who bringing nothing to sustain their prejudiced pseudo facts. 62.143.60.23 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)

Amen

Damn those rouge admins and thier insistence on verifiability over and above The TruthTM! Just zis Guy you know? 16:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
1) No one has disputed the claim about a royal charter it is in the first of the first paragraph. It is not disputed nor is it important to list the link at bottom along side the link to the next page. This is a standard policy for wikipedia. 2) I am not an adminstrator and I did not and cannot disable editting for anon. users. Arbusto 06:25, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

UNESCO

UNESCO does not accredit institutions of higher education. An institution’s claim to be accredited by, approved by, or registered with UNESCO has no meaning. ECE ELECTRONIC NEWSLETTER Volume VIII, Number 2 17 March 2006195.93.60.69 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)

But UNESCO does list those institutions which are accredited by various countries. Would you like to hazard a guess at the number of reputable universitites which are "accredited" only by countries in which they do not appear to operate? My estimate would be around the zero mark. Just zis Guy you know? 19:25, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree with 195.93.60.69 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log), when he quotes "UNESCO does not accredit institutions of higher education. An institution’s claim to be accredited by, approved by, or registered with UNESCO has no meaning." On Weston Reserve University's about page it states "Weston Reserve University is accredited as an international institution of higher learning specialising in distance education in a Diploma of Recognition granted by the International Association of Educators for World Peace, an international consultative body of the UNESCO."[7] Thus, according to 195.93.60.69 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)'s edit the school's claims about accreditation are meaningless.
That said and lacking recognized accreditation from Kuwait (see UNESCO list) and lacking accreditation in North America (see CHEA or USDE datadase) we can conclude it is not an accredited school and the degrees lack academic value. Arbusto 21:37, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

You don't want to understand. The WRU has the highest accreditation of her country. Kuwait does not list any of the various privat universitys but state university only. This is ar result of there policy not to religiously supervise universitys with secular curricula only

You offend the Kuwaiti Royal house by her statements! The royal house itself has confirmed the university !!! In 2003, Weston Reserve University received a Royal Charter from Kuwait, conferring recognition and accreditation as an institution of higher learning and granting authority to operate within and outside that state.

What is in any lists isn't importantly !! You can say this the university isn't recognized by Nordamerica, this is your opinion. But the Royal House in Kuwait has accredited the university fully and this is fact. With best regards from Kuwait

I wish you all the best. Insha`allah —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.60.69 (talk • contribs)

The point is, the "unniversity" is active primarily in the US and Canada, where is has no accreditation. Accreditation in a country where it is apparently not significantly active is not really much of an endorsement, especially since UNESCO does not note it. Just zis Guy you know? 19:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
"The WRU has the highest accreditation of her country." 1) The school has no address in "her country," ie Kuwait. 2) According to UNESCO the school does not have accreditation in "her country." 3)The school operates in North America and lacks accreditation there. Arbusto 06:16, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

In my humble opinion you all should read the charter of the WRU and then you would clearly see that there is noted that WRU is allowed to confer degrees within and without the realm of Kuwait. Moreover the Princess of Kuwait is Patron of the university what can be seen easily on the faculty site. Therefore the allegation here that the charter itself is not indepentently verifiable is simply does not make sense as this fact- the princess herself as patron - is self-explanatory itself.

Finally, the question arises why you as moderators presume that the university has mainly students from USA and Canada. You anglo-american Saxons should note that the world simply consists of much more countries than just your petty North America... e.g. how about India with its 900 million citizens where English is official language... just before you start arguing that the language of instruction is English...

Why can a blatant misuse of your moderator rights cause such a biased entry in an open source dictionary. And if you are so americanized... have you ever heard about terms like 'punitive damage', 'lewd' , 'libel' etc... I believe you touch with your behaviour such judicial regions!

Why not open the possibility to edit your wrongs and errors. You cannot say it is not accredited when it obviously has a Royal Charter and has the Princess herself as parton.

You cannot list the university under 'unaccredited' when it is obviously accredited from that country of origin, from that country issuing its charter which is a sovereign nation...

Did you ever note that all US university which are accredited are not accredited by the Department of Education of the US but by private accrediting agencies which earn big money in even bigger 'lump sums' ?

You are biased, you are prejudiced, you have no respect for non anglosaxon cultures and jurisdictions and you even do not know that your own jurisdiction has evaluation by 'vocational experience' like Charter Oak University and Thomas Edison State University both USA and both regional accredited.

Did you know that the educational system of your so beloved USA endorse unaccredited institutions like Kennedy Western University etc. by licensure of states like Wyoming, Alabama, California etc? Did you know that every US Church can flood the world with worthless doctor titles?

Fair is foul and foul is fair...

Amen—Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.143.60.23 (talk • contribs)

Provide an independent and reliable source to prove it is accredited for the area(s) it operates in. Arbusto 06:16, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Listen up smart-man: you get yourself an audience in Kuwait with the Royal House, jump in a plane and fly to Kuwait. How about that? Is that reliable enough?
By the way: who gives you the right to harass a university out of your anonymous cyber space and play judge?
Why can you lie like YOU want by posting 'unaccredited'? If you would write 'not accredited in the USA and Canada' this would be half way fair. Your character and your bahviour speaks for itself!!!
And again: your write 'unaccredited' and remove yourself the posted link to the Kuwaiti accreditation... Why can nothing be done against such unjust behaviour. You should be sued! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.143.60.194 (talk • contribs)
Here is a friendly warning about what you just said: Wikipedia:No legal threats. Secondly, provide a independent reliable source or go away. Arbusto 07:39, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello, isn't the Royal House reliable ? Do you doubt the Royal Family? The Royal House is a reliable source!
The WRU is accredited by the Royal House in Kuwait!
The Royal House in Kuwait is informed about the insults!
I wish you all the best. Insha`allah —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.60.69 (talk • contribs)
I take that as a "no." Arbusto 11:46, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diploma mill allegations

Searching google for information I found these quotes:

"the Weston Reserve University and Alternative Medicine Research Institute (both run by same person) are diploma mills. They do not have any campus or formal office or even a room. But a p.o. box address. You can apply to become their regional representatives easily as well. Degree will be granted based on thesis.. No course works."[8]

and this quote:

"two Saint Regis former or current Professor's on their faculty website."[9]

and this:

it has the following in a "content" meta tag:"St. Regis University, Saint Regis University, Robertstown University, James Monroe University, Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon, Ecole Supérieure Universitaire Robert de Sorbon, Advanced Education Development, Prior Learning Assessment, Validation of Experience, la validation des acquis par expérience, VAE, Alternative Medicines Research Organization, AMRI, Alternative Medicines Research Organization, AMRO."[10]

and most telling from it's own website:

"Although the parent company, Westonia Advisors, Ltd., has an office in British Columbia, WRU programs are not available in British Columbia nor offered to residents of British Columbia."[11]

Interesting... Arbusto 12:15, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

and once again:
Weston Reserve University received a Royal Charter from Kuwait, conferring recognition and accreditation as an institution of higher learning and granting authority to operate within and outside that state.The Royal Accreditation is the highest accreditation.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.60.69 (talk • contribs)
Only according to you. A google search for "Royal Accreditation" brings up 40 hits. Of the hits not one is a UN, US, or Kuwait education webpage about accreditation. In fact, the majority of those hits are diploma mills. It sounds like a made up term. Arbusto 01:19, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Not after me. Under the law of the Royal Family. Write to the Royal House. All other things are "hear and say".
I won't write now any more!
Write to the Royal Family and you get answers to yours ask..
I wish you all the best. God blesses you.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.60.69 (talk • contribs)
Once again according to UNESCO the school is not accredited in Kuwait. According to CHEA it is not accredited in North America. Arbusto 06:20, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
And again - I support Arbusto. The UNESCO list must be given the most weight. The only other evidence is the Weston Reserve University's webpage, which given a number of factors can't be given too much weight. Also, I would like 195.93.60.69 to state what attachment he has to the University. Thue | talk 07:54, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

UNESCO

UNESCO does not accredit institutions of higher education. An institution’s claim to be accredited by, approved by, or registered with UNESCO has no meaning. ECE ELECTRONIC NEWSLETTER Volume VIII, Number 2 17 March 2006

Write to the Royal Family and you get answers to yours ask..

For me the topic is completed and Denemarkt is a very beautiful Land.

I wish you the best. God blesses you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.60.69 (talk • contribs)

No, UNESCO does not accredit. It does, however, list recognised accredited universities, and it does discuss accreditation status because, worldwide, the spread of degree mills is seen as a significant problem. In this case the fact that UNESCO does not list either WRU as an institution or the Royal House of Kuwait as an accreditor (a country in which, incidentally, WRU does not appear to operate), the claim is self-evidently questionable. So, how about you dispense with the arm-waving and encouragements to original research? Just zis Guy you know? 10:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Isn't the UNESCO accreditation discussed severel times above? Everybody else than 195.93.60.69 seems to agree, and 195.93.60.69 does not seem to listen to everybody else's arguments. Case closed, IMO. Thue | talk 20:30, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Just so you know Arbusto, Robincie("cie" stands for the Canadian Institute of English),is the European Office contact in Spain. Oh did I forget to mention that "The Canadian Institute of English" and Weston Reserve University are affiliates...I was unfortunately misled to belive that I would receive my TESOL certification from attending a one week intensive 40 hour course. But upon arriving on the Monday one of the first things I was told by Dr. H**** C***** (who runs the course)was that "you may have come here to receive your TESOL certificate but It's actually about Neuroscience and the 25 different teaching methods you can use when teaching any language". Oh, did I forget to mention the cost. $830USD payable in advance...Oh did I also forget to mention that The certificates were printed on the Wednesday Morning, but the course didn't finish until the Friday! There was no Examination as such, only daily practice of the previous days teaching method which was hardly supervised as the 50-60 of us were in small groups, and half the time Dr. C***** wasn't even on the same floor as us. I don't know whether to blow my nose on it or use it to wipe my Ass...Disappointed and ripped off!

[edit] Accreditation (May 20, 2006)

Dear Arbusto, Thank you for your message about the Weston Reserve University Page. I am sorry if my edit appeared to be vandalism. I am new, so I might not quite understand how to go about things. However, I do understand that vandalism in Wikipedia's policy is "any addition, deletion, or change to content made in a deliberate attempt to reduce the quality of the encyclopedia. The most common type of vandalism is the replacement of existing text with obscenities, page blanking, or the insertion of bad jokes or other nonsense." Also, I understand what Vandalism is not: "Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism." Correct me if I'm wrong but the Weston Reserve University information that you posted seems to be quite biased and even slanderous. I feel that what I wrote is factual, can be verified and actually improves the quality of this Wikipedia page.

Please let me know your comments.

Robincie—Preceding unsigned comment added by Robincie (talk • contribs)

The information comes straight from the Weston webpage and thus it sourced directly from Weston. Do not remove that material. If you wish to add to it fine make sure it is source. Do you have any connection to the "university?"
Also when claiming it has "accreditation" you must provide a source from a reputable party. This "university" is missing from the British education's webpage, UNESCO page, and the USDE webpage. If you view the article's talk page you will notice it has been discussed indepthly. Arbusto 21:40, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


Arbusto, yes I have read the discussion. You are right to say that it is very indepth. However, perhaps the question is: "Is the information we are presenting about Weston unbiased?", also, "Is it properly focussed?", "Is it relevant?", and perhaps most importantly: "Is it slanderous?", what I mean to say is: Are we simply trying to present information that discredits the University or purposely makes it look bad? When it is said that Weston is unaccredited, what is meant by "accreditation"? Do we only consider a university to be accredited once it has UNESCO listing? Is this what accreditation means? As you know, Weston Reserve does have accreditation; it has the Royal Charter from Kuwait. I understand that you have repeatedly questioned this. Why? I would like to know what has led you to question the official document on Weston Reserve's website. If universities in Britain are accredited by Royal Charter, then why should we dub Weston University "unaccredited"? I understand that you feel that it is perhaps "unconventional" to be operating in a country other than the country from which Weston has received the Royal Charter. But, does this change the fact that Weston Reserve University is accredited? I have to say with conviction NO. I believe and hope that you will understand me by my saying that many of the comments on the discussion page are unproperly focused. Let's try to get to the bottom of this and present information that is more relevant. Please see my changes to the page and let me know your comments.

Regards,

Robincie—Preceding unsigned comment added by Robincie (talk • contribs)

Two questions: 1) What is slanderous, that is, what is false? 2) What evidence-from a reliable source like Kuwait's ministry education or UNESCO's list- proves that it: A) Does have a "royal charter" for education B) The royal charter is equivlent to US accreditation. I ask because the website is in English, the schools name is in English, it offers no classes, has no faculty, and it only accepts US Dollars. I look forward to your evidence. Arbusto 01:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello Arbusto, thank you for your questions. 1) By using the word "claims" when talking about WRU's Royal Charter, the reader is mislead. This gives the false impression that they do not actually have a Royal Charter. Remember that slander is not only a false statement, but also the act of saying somethig false or malicious that damages somebody's reputation. The word "claims" is also used in conection to IAEWP. You also made the change from the word "recognized" to "accredited". This is a FALSE and misleading statement. They do not claim to have accreditation from IAEWP. They are recognized by this organization. 2) The signed document from HRH Anwar Faisal Al-Sabah herself. This document speaks for itself and by presenting it correctly (offering a link to Weston Reserve's page where the document is found), we give the reader the chance to see this for themselves. On the other hand, by deliberately deleting the link that leads to this we are hiding important information from the reader. The impression given is that this is done in an aim to discredit the University. Regarding your further questions, I cannot understand why you repeatedly go back to the matter of UNESCO listing. In my last edit, I included clear, unbiased information about UNESCO. In the first paragraph I mentioned that WRU does not have UNESCO listing; by the way, they don't actually claim to have this. As for US accreditation, I don't understand why you are coming back to this. In my last edit, if you remember well, I also included the fact that WRU is not on any list of accredited universities in the US; once again, is Weston actually claiming to have this? NO. The fact that their website is in English does not mean that they automatically have to be on the list of accredited universities in the US. As you know, English is now the Lingua Franca. English is an international language. If you look at Weston's website, you will also see that WRU is a university with a very international scope, not only American. So, to start with, let's settle the UNESCO listing and US accreditation matter. This, by the way is irrelevant, since they are not claiming to have this. Why should we focus solely on this?

There is further information that you have included that is either biased or from a biased source. When it is said that "Obfuscation over accreditation and a name which appears deliberately similar to a legitimate institution in the USA have led to speculation that it might be a degree mill." For starters, this is "speculation", nothing conclusive. Also, it is obviously from a biased source. Wikipedia is not to be biased. Therefore, we would improve the quality of Wikipedia by simply deleting this statement. Under Degrees the information presented is very slanderous, not exact and partly irrelevant. Under Location, the information is simply false (see WRU website) and also clearly slanderous. We need to improve this page. It clearly gives the impression of someone trying to completely discredit WRU and is very far from unbiased. Of course, we all have a right to our opinion. But, we should allow each individual to exercise this right by presenting the information in an objective manner.

Thank you, I look forward to your comments,

Robincie--Robincie 09:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

This place appears to be a business: No application standards, no physical campus, no classes, but it accepts PAYPAL(not even its own credit card check out). You must provide proof to back up the school's claims for accreditation. Through the USDE page and UNESCO's page I can verfify accreditation from Harvard to Jami'at Al-Kuwait (in Kuwait).
Do not revert something against consensus without proof. If you want to call it accredited it must be WP:V- end of story. Arbusto 08:43, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


Arbusto, there you go again with suppositions and speculation. You say it "appears" to be a business. Let's stick to the facts. It seems to me that we have covered the subject of accreditation. In my last edit, I included very clear information about Weston Reserve University's accreditation: the accreditation that they have and the accreditation that they don't have. So, what exactly is the issue? Why are you deviating and focussing on irrelevant information with the aim of discrediting Weston Reserve University? Why to you insist on deleting important information about WRU and keeping slanderous and unfactual information? I respect your opinion. As I mentioned before, it is my belief that everyone has a right to their opinion. However, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and we need to stick to facts and keep unbiased. I am sorry, but I must disagree with your claim that the information that I am posting is "nonsense". Very far from it. It is clear, truthful and unbiased. Talk to you soon,

Robincie--Robincie 19:39, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Do not revert something against consensus without proof. If you want to call it accredited it must be WP:V- end of story. Arbusto 20:11, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] http://westonreserve.org/ blocks archiving

A quick check at www.archive.org to view the "university's" history shows that it blocks all archiving of the webpage. This in effect prevents people from holding the website and its owner accountable of old content and changes. Draw your own conclusions on why a website that only accepts US dollars and claims that Kuwait gave it accreditation (without independent verification) would want to block its history. Arbusto 01:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Arbusto, why would you try to find information that WAS on the WRU page? What is the purpose of this? In our discussion, let's please try to keep the subject on the right track. That is: what Weston Reserve University is at present. If we try to focus on the past too much, we will risk presenting information that is out of date. Once again, let's keep focused and try to avoid being biased.

Thank you,

Robincie--Robincie 10:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

To see what the school's mailing address, faculty, classes, history, or when the webpage was started. Yes, let's avoid being biased. Supply a independent, credible source that this webpage is accredited. Arbusto 08:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Considering this article has been up since July 2004 started by IP from Amsterdam, has been hit by other Amsterdam IPs, had a British Columbia address(since pull off Weston's page), claims Kuwaiti accreditation without independent proof, has a website in American English, and accepts PAYPAL without having to attend class... yeah its fairly significant that one is prevented from looking at the Weston's webpage history. Arbusto 09:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Also I am curious as to why Weston pulled this off its page: "although the parent company, Westonia Advisors, Ltd., has an office in British Columbia, WRU programs are not available in British Columbia nor offered to residents of British Columbia."[12] Arbusto 09:33, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
More interesting stuff, the domain was registered in Miami, FL back in 2002. Hardly a Kuwaiti enterpise. Arbusto 09:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Canadian Institute of English

Just so you know Arbusto, Robincie("cie" stands for the Canadian Institute of English),is the European Office contact in Spain. Oh did I forget to mention that "The Canadian Institute of English" and Weston Reserve University are affiliates...I was unfortunately misled to belive that I would receive my TESOL certification from attending a one week intensive 40 hour course. But upon arriving on the Monday one of the first things I was told by Dr. H**** C***** (who runs the course)was that "you may have come here to receive your TESOL certificate but It's actually about Neuroscience and the 25 different teaching methods you can use when teaching any language". Oh, did I forget to mention the cost. $830USD payable in advance...Oh did I also forget to mention that The certificates were printed on the Wednesday Morning, but the course didn't finish until the Friday! There was no Examination as such, only daily practice of the previous days teaching method which was hardly supervised as the 50-60 of us were in small groups, and half the time Dr. C***** wasn't even on the same floor as us. I don't know whether to blow my nose on it or use it to wipe my Ass...Disappointed and ripped off! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qtn.michael (talk • contribs)

After the 5 day CIE workshop, just do one book summary, have it marked by one of "Dr" H**** C****'s relatives and you get a BA Education degree jointly signed by CIE and Weston Reserve...says a lot about its legitimacy and royal charter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.156.6.54 (talk • contribs)

You forgot to mention all the spelling errors in the workshop manual!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qtn.michael (talk • contribs)