Talk:Warschauer Kniefall
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Isn't there an English name we can use for the title? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 11:07, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- My books use Warschauer Kniefall. You have to remember that English-speakers are endlessly fascinated by the German language, because it is so like English, and yet so different. Also, academics love pretentious-sounding foreign terms. I suspect those are the reasons it has entered the lexicon in unaltered form ;) --Jpbrenna 18:26, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- A quick Google shows that Warschauer Kniefall exact matches beat out "Warsaw Kneeling" by 914-1. For the first time since 1870, a war that the Germans can say they won ;). --Jpbrenna 18:30, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- I'm a German living in Germany, and I've never heard the term "Warschauer Kniefall". Everyone I know, including my former politics teacher and classmates, as well as all my history books refer to it as "Kniefall von Warschau" (Kneeling of Warsaw). It is hard to explain the difference, it just makes it sound... greater, if you like.
- It should also be added that Brandt was critized as being "unpatriotic" by the german media of that era. -- Imladros 03:52, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
A question: is Brandt's act regarded as applying only to victims of the Ghetto, to Jewish victims of the Holocaust more generally, or to all victims of Nazi war crimes, including Allied military personnel? Grant65 | Talk 04:05, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
- At least in Germany it's considered to apply to all atrocitys commited by German forces in Poland. That was one of the reasons he was critisised for it that strongly. Many Germans at the time preferred the view that the Holocaust and the warcrimes were commited by the SS while the regular army fought a clean, honorable war (this being defined as doing nothing that wasn't done by the other side as well). From that point of view such an apology seemed exagerated. Nevfennas 08:51, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
- What a ridiculous claim?? Why should he apologize to enemy military personnel? Fighting a war is not "war crimes". Most war crimes during WWII were committed by the Stalinists and their accomplicies. Including Poland which was responsible for ethnic cleansing of million of Germans and horrible crimes. This is the reason the left-extremist Brandt (who only had power thanks to his Stasi friends) was unpopular. Germany owed Poland nothing and Poland has to this day not apologized for its crimes - rather the other way round with this new fascist chauvinist government. -Munt
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- If you have any _evidence_ of Brandt being an extremist, the Stasi making him chancellor or Brandt having friends in the Stasi (except Guillaume :) ), it still wouldn't belong here but to the utmost in the Willy_Brandt discussion / article. You probably set up "Germany owed Poland nothing" by the "since 5:45am, we are shooting back" radio quote? In what definition is "this new government" (the german one? the polish?) "fascist" or "chauvinist"? Is that really of importance _here_? --- if not: Catch. >-)))D 134.83.201.84 22:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
- Except for his personal secretary being a Stasi spy, the Stasi paid MPs to vote for Brandt in parliament during the vote of no confidence. At least one and possibly two (or more?) of the pro-Brandt MPs were paid by the Stasi. Brandt was a Stasi Chancellor, not a Chancellor representing the German people. The new fascist and extreme chauvinist government of Poland is led by the rightist extremist PiS party.
- "(Guillaume :) )" alleged to Guenter Guillaume, Brandt's secretary, being a Stasi spy. Brandt obviously didn't know about that; his political career was terminated by that affair. I don't know if the Stasi's attempts to bribe MPs actually succeeded -- you might have a point there. But Brandt was no member of the Stasi, or why should they have spied him with Guillaume? Brandt was elected by the parliament, which itself was democratically elected by the german people. SPD/FDP had a majority of six in that election. The actual polish government has nothing to do with the polish government of the 1970s. It was, even if it is extremely right-wing, elected in a democratical process. -- Except that I don't know whether WP is an appropriate place to discuss all this: Maybe try to keep all the "-ism"s and "extreme"s at a low level. Calling members of democratic governments "left-wing" or "right-wing" is fine; I see problems calling them "extremist". -- I think I'm right. WP is _not_ the place to discuss this. No more stuff from me, I promise :) 134.83.201.84 15:54, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- If you have any _evidence_ of Brandt being an extremist, the Stasi making him chancellor or Brandt having friends in the Stasi (except Guillaume :) ), it still wouldn't belong here but to the utmost in the Willy_Brandt discussion / article. You probably set up "Germany owed Poland nothing" by the "since 5:45am, we are shooting back" radio quote? In what definition is "this new government" (the german one? the polish?) "fascist" or "chauvinist"? Is that really of importance _here_? --- if not: Catch. >-)))D 134.83.201.84 22:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
