Talk:Wales Labour Party

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[edit] Party leader

I don't want to get into a tiresome edit war about this, but I have to point out that Rhodri Morgan is not leader of the Wales Labour Party. Unlike, for example, the Liberal Democrats, the UK Labour Party is not a federal organisation. Tony Blair is therefore the leader of the Welsh section of the Labour Party. I appreciate that most people regard Rhodri Morgan as the Leader (and that is often media shorthand), but he is in fact leader only the National Assembly Labour Party.

To blur this distinction is to suggest that Ken Livingstone is Leader of the London Labour Party. Wikipedia is about factual information - and these are the facts. Normalmouth 19:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Whither Welsh Labour?

Welsh Labour IS a constituent part of the Labour Party. It was before it became a separate accounting unit. It was during the time it was a separate accounting unit. And it is now that it is once more not a separate accounting unit. Please check the numerous academic sources cited in the article if you dispute this. tks. Normalmouth 22:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] When was Welsh Labour founded?

Please stop inserting the wholly false claim that Welsh Labour has only been around since 1999. The rest of the article belies this and is sourced. Your source does not do the same. If you persist, I will report you for vandalism. Normalmouth 22:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

"Welsh Labour" was created in 1999 - I have provided a reference for that as well.Lenincymru2007 23:09, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, this source is wrong - see the sources referred to in the article. Normalmouth 06:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
No the source is not wrong, it is completely accurate. A Labour spokesperson accepted the story's veracit. If you continue to remove it, I will have to report you for vandalism. Also, why are you insistent on restoring a typo spelling separate as 'separarate'[sic]Lenincymru2007 09:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
There appears to be some confusion with terminology. Welsh Labour (as in the part of the Labour Party that operates in Wales) has been in existence since 1947, as affirmed by the sources used in this article. That is why the article says "Wales Labour Party, also known as Welsh Labour". "Welsh Labour" as a specific brand was indeed created in 1999 and was merely one of a long sequence of names, starting with the "Welsh Regional Council of Labour" and including both "Labour Party Wales" and "Wales Labour Party". If you wish to devise some wording to reflect this, please do so. But do not contradict the article, and the sources, by suggesting that there was no Welsh part of the party until 1999. This is simply factually wrong. Normalmouth 09:42, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
You seem to be missing the point, Welsh Labour has not existed as a autonomous unit of the Labour Party since 2006. In stark contrast to the Scottish Labour Party. This page links from a search from Welsh Labour.Lenincymru2007 09:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
the intro is careful not to make such a claim. All it says is that the WLP is the part of the LP that operates in Wales, which is true and has been since 1947.
However, for the record, the WLP does have autonomy in the areas indicated in the structure section. Accordingly, I'll revert. Normalmouth 12:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
It does however, say "also known as Welsh Labour", so it tries to indicate that the Labour Party in Wales and Welsh Labour are synonymous, which they are not. Welsh Labour is defunct. I have reverted accordingly.Lenincymru2007 21:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The Wales Labour Party IS also known as Welsh Labour. See [1], [2], [3], [4] and [5], so the statement is accurate. I have reflected your edit about the cessation of the separate accounting unit in the structure section. Reverted. Normalmouth 23:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I am not denying that it is referred to as Welsh Labour, but to provided balance in the opening. Also why do you insist on taking the source out of links. That is surely informative to the reader. Your piece is not balanced without it. Reverted. Lenincymru2007 12:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Let's try and unpack the offending sentence, to try and reach agreement:
1. The Wales Labour Party is also known as Welsh Labour. I have provided supporting evidence. Do you now accept this?
2. The Wales Labour Party is the part of the Labour Party that operates in Wales. This statement says nothing about autonomy, distinctiveness of accounting units, legal identity. It is merely a factual statement about the sub-division, or part of the LP that operates in Wales.
If you accept these two clauses. the atatment must stand. Your edit, to say that Welsh Labour ceased to exist in 2006, can only confuse unless it is given explanation. The place to do this is in the structute, where we talk about office of leader and so on.
I can't allow this confusion to stand and have thus reverted. Normalmouth 13:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
at least two of your 'five' examples are invalid (one is self-reference and another just refers to "Labour's Welsh conference", but have offered a further compromise in any case. Lenincymru2007 20:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Self references are allowed (the criteria is how something is known, that icludes self definition). I included the other to which you object, because it provides a link to "Welsh Labour". I suggest you re-read it.

You suggested wording works well in the structure section, so I've moved it there. Normalmouth 21:28, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

You have reneged on your promise and removed the sentence. Lenincymru2007 10:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
See PPERA Party registration and accounting below. Normalmouth 10:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PPERA Party registration and accounting

I have amended the history section to clarify Welsh Labour's status under PPERA and made a further reference to the accounting units of the party in Wales. Normalmouth 23:07, 22 March 2007 (UTC)