Talk:University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

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[edit] Seal

Every few months someone seems to be changing the seal to a copyvio version with opaque background and bright (non-Carolina) blue detail. If the seal doesn't have the registered trademark symbol that the official one has, then it isn't the correct seal by definition, so please don't change it unless the university issues a new one (which seems unlikely for the foreseeable future). Thank you. LostOldPassword (talk) 22:30, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not the one who changed the seal back to the English version, but I do think the English version is the one that should be used. Both the English and Latin seals are official seals of the university, but the English seal is used far more frequently than the Latin one. Also, the trademark symbol is technically not part of the seal itself. It is merely used to alert people to the fact that it is a registered trademark, which is actually redundant in wikipedia where you can access all the rights information for any image simply by clicking on it.Rreagan007 (talk) 15:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

But the trademark denoted it as the approved version (you don't trademark something without a reason). Also the English version uploaded wasn't even the semi-official English version from the trademarks and licensing page, but a very old version. We can't use an old version to currently represent the university and should they change this logo, then this should be changed too. No doubt you can find webpages with the old English logo, but if you look on official university documents (i.e. paper) and around campus you will always see the Latin version. LostOldPassword (talk) 15:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I just checked the "Graphic Identity Manual", and it says the Latin is for the university and the English for licensed merchandise, if that helps clarify. I don't know if the manual is online, but it's probably available from UNC on request. In this context we're representing the university so the Latin would be the appropriate. Of course a case could also be made that we should only be using the signature mark logo (i.e. the stylized Old Well). LostOldPassword (talk) 15:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The Graphic Identity Manual is located here online, and it does show all 3 versions of the seal. As you can see there are 2 English versions, one with a scalloped edge and one with a smooth edge, so the English version without a scalloped edge isn’t an “old” version. I think using the English version makes more sense because people can actually read what it says, but I’m not going to fight you on which version of the seal should be used because I think it’s really more a matter of personal preference. However, I do think we need to find a better version of the Latin one at least because the current one being used doesn’t show up very well (at least on my computer screen).Rreagan007 (talk) 16:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The color was old on the other one (it certainly isn't the sickly blue version that was uploaded), and as stated in the manual all three logos are official, but do not have the same purposes. Look at a coin and think e pluribus unum for a use of Latin where you would expect English for legibility. LostOldPassword (talk) 16:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok first let me say I appreciate your passion for the UNC wikipedia page, but I think you should tone things down a little. I'm not being "a little naive." This is the English version of wikipedia. I seriously doubt more than 1 or 2 percent of people that read this page can actually read Latin. And calling reversion to the English seal "possible vandalism" on your editor's comment is a bit much also. But you're right, the manual does say they have different purposes, but reading the manual I can't tell which version would be most appropriate for use on a wikipedia page. I guess they didn't think about that use when they last updated the manual.Rreagan007 (talk) 16:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I certainly apologize for that, I got a little carried away. LostOldPassword (talk) 16:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. That happens to me sometimes too. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll try to find a better version of the seal also. LostOldPassword (talk) 16:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

GreatRreagan007 (talk) 16:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Just checked the university licensing page, and that's the exact same version, but converted to PNG. Not sure if that made a difference. I'll check. The UNC system has a better quality version, so I'll see if that source has individual campus ones also. LostOldPassword (talk) 16:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I've colorized and uploaded a screen grab from the manual itself. It's slightly larger. I don't mind if you revert back to the old one, though. LostOldPassword (talk) 17:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I definitely think that looks a lot better. Thanks. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

According to the official UNC-CH Design ServicesManual [1] there are three versions of the University Seal authorized by the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. One of these, the Latin University seal, may only be used by University departments. The talk above about the English seal being an old, outdated version is incorrect. Dbalderzak (talk) 18:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The one you uploaded is outdated, not English ones in general, and note the different uses. Also that version does not have a transparent background so doesn't look good. You've cut the rest of the sentence off, because in actual fact you'll see that none should really be used on Wikipedia, but we're invoking the fair use clause of United States copyright law. LostOldPassword (talk) 18:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

If you read the entire discussion you'll see that we came to the conclusion that English seal vs. Latin seal is really just a matter of preference because using the seal on wikipedia doesn't fit into either of the categories in the manual. I actually prefer the English version, but I think the Latin one that's currently being used is perfectly acceptable. If there is still a dispute over which to use, I think we should look and see what the university itself does for miscellaneous uses of the seal. If my memory is correct, I believe the university seal located in the middle of the quad is the Latin version. If that is so, I think we should probably assume that is the seal they would want to be representing the university on wikipedia since they have gone though the trouble to carve it in stone. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I endorse wholeheartedly the above summary by Rreagan007. I think you're right about the quad. I would check to confirm, but it's pushing 100° F outside... I know the metal seals on columns on the corner of Cameron and Columbia are Latin, though. LostOldPassword (talk) 19:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)