Talk:UEFA competition records
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[edit] Which competitions to include?
This page seems to have changed markedly from when I last looked at it in febraury. The totals table no longer includes the inter-cities fairs cup , but does include the super cup, intercontinental cup and intertoto cup.
In effect this makes it a different table, so I would say the original table should also be included on this page or linked to another page.
Athosfolk (talk) 15:43, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
-
- This table is made according to UEFA official resolutions (see references and footnotes in the article). In UEFA.com UEFA NOT recognize Inter-cities Fairs Cup as official UEFA competition. This is the fact for an encyclopedia. All ranking for number of official trophies won includes european super cup, intercontinental cup and intertoto cup. --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 23:29, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Which competitions to include?
Why is the Intercontinental Cup used? So its OK for the Fairs Cup not to be, so why Intercontinental cup? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fadiga09 (talk • contribs) 16:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- Because Intercontinental Cup was OFFICIAL and organized by FIFA and Fairs cup was organized by anyone, because UEFA doesn´t recognize that cup, so it´s UNOFFICIAL. --Ultracanalla (talk) 21:21, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
But this is the UEFA Competition Records, not FIFA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fadiga09 (talk • contribs) 09:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
-
- So what? FIGC also recognize all competitions organizated by UEFA. Intercontinental Cup was organizated by FIFA, for that IS recognize by all its regional confederations (e.g. UEFA). --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 20:12, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Excuse me, when i ask a question i want it answered properly, this is the UEFA competition records page, the Intercontinental Cup is irrelevant, seeing as South America teams win it aswell, having it on here is totally pointless and wrong. It will be removed when i have time, any reliable arguments and i will revert.
- Removing the Fairs Cup, is fine, but the Intercontinental Cup is a ludicrous addition. Unless anyone can explain how it is a UEFA competition, I will be removing it shortly. Black Kite 18:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
-
- See History of the Intercontinental Cup in UEFA.com. According UEFA (from European club competitions recognized by UEFA (page 23, PDF)): "These are the official statistics considered valid for communicating official records in UEFA club competitions defined as the European Champion Clubs' Cup, the UEFA Champions League, the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup, the UEFA Cup, the UEFA Super Cup (from the 1973 competition), the UEFA Intertoto Cup and the European/South American Cup (or Intercontinental Champions Clubs' Cup). The Inter-Cities Fairs Cup is not regarded as a UEFA competition but statistics are separately included for information purposes. One competition to give the title of "World Club Champions" is NOT a "irrelevant" event... The Intercontinental Cup is included in the list because IS recognized by UEFA (different respect the Fairs Cup case) as the international competitions are recognized by the national federations in their statistics. --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 00:20, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
- You are missing the point completely - the IC is "recognised" by UEFA but it is not a UEFA competition and therefore does not belong on this page. Black Kite 00:38, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
- See History of the Intercontinental Cup in UEFA.com. According UEFA (from European club competitions recognized by UEFA (page 23, PDF)): "These are the official statistics considered valid for communicating official records in UEFA club competitions defined as the European Champion Clubs' Cup, the UEFA Champions League, the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup, the UEFA Cup, the UEFA Super Cup (from the 1973 competition), the UEFA Intertoto Cup and the European/South American Cup (or Intercontinental Champions Clubs' Cup). The Inter-Cities Fairs Cup is not regarded as a UEFA competition but statistics are separately included for information purposes. One competition to give the title of "World Club Champions" is NOT a "irrelevant" event... The Intercontinental Cup is included in the list because IS recognized by UEFA (different respect the Fairs Cup case) as the international competitions are recognized by the national federations in their statistics. --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 00:20, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
-
- So what? here and here (statistics of NATIONAL tournaments) are added international trophies and their are not organizated by The FA or FIGC. If you would like deleted Intercontinental Cup from this list, Why not delet all international cups from their list? Maybe a change in the title of the article... --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 19:35, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
1. Interesting, so if you look at that first link you just posted, that table includes the Fairs Cup, so are suggesting that should be added too? Surely if it has the Intercontinental Cup it should have the Fairs Cup? I'm not suggesting it should, but just pointing out that both cups are listed there.
2. Those two links you provided are irrelevant and pointless, tell me what they have to do with this article? Obviously an English/Italian football records article will list every trophy their clubs have won? hence Intercontinental Cup is listed, what's it got to do with this article? This is about UEFA tournaments, an article showing that, those two links are about what English and Italian clubs have won in their history. It's simple in my eyes, UEFA tournaments article lists only European tournaments, surely then the exclusion of the South American winners makes this pointless? So, if someone can take out the Intercontinental Cup it'll be much appreicated, i can't say i know how to. (Fadiga09 (talk) 09:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC))
I retract my last posts above, it seems like UEFA.com does include the Intercontinental Cup as a trophy, my bad. (Fadiga09 (talk) 22:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC))
i dont understand how Liverpools 5 European cups rank below Juventus's 2. I know its on the number of trophies but surely the value and difficulty of the competition has to come in to it otherwise 2 intertoto cup wins = 2 champions cup wins which is not fair! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.206.66.121 (talk) 18:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
-
- See:
| Pos. | Team | European Cup-UEFA Champions League | UEFA Cup Winner's Cup | UEFA Cup | Intercontinental Cup | UEFA Super Cup | UEFA Intertoto Cup | Tot. |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3 (THIRD) |  Juventus FC |
2 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1[1] | 11 |
| 3 (THIRD) |  Liverpool FC |
5 | - | 3 | - | 3 | - | 11 |
-
- My dear child / user, i remember you that Juve have 2 World Cups v 0 (ZERO) of Liverpool and crown "World Champion" is always better than crown "Champion of Europe" like FIFA World Cup v Euro. The ranking is for chronological order in the same form that FIFA have all its rankings (e.g. England is added first than France but France have 1 World Cup and 2 Eurocups v only 1 World Cup for England. England is first because it only WC is from 1966 v 1998 for France). In this case the latest Juve's title in a official UEFA competition was in 2000, the latest title won by Liverpool was in 2005. Obviously, in a chonological order Juve is add first and Liverpool after... --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 18:27, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] UEFA Intertoto Cup confusions since 2006 edition
There is a bit of a mess when people try to add/update the Intertoto Cup wins. The problem occurs with the inclusion of clubs actually won the Intertoto Cup since 2006. As with the new format, which start in 2006, there are only 3 rounds instead of 5 (as previous years). Because of that, there are 11 clubs, that won the final round, declared winners of the Intertoto Cup. However, interestingly with the new format, the team who progress the furtherest were later awarded the UEFA Intertoto Cup outright. Newcastle United FC & Hamburger SV, therefore, won the UEFA Intertoto Cup outright in 2006, 2007 edition respectively.
Now on the UEFA page, UEFA clearly quote "Newcastle were the only ones to reach the UEFA Cup Round of 32, and in a new system were awarded the UEFA Intertoto Cup outright", however, UEFA still show that previous winners are all 11 clubs that won the final round of the competition, not the team that won outright (which I believe that should have been the case). UEFA also include the Intertoto Cup wins in each of those 11 clubs' page (on UEFA website, of course). That's probably the reason why people in here just jump in and edit/update/add, etc.
The question here is (probably to UEFA), what's the point of having an outright winners and then the bunch of other winners (no less than 10) also listed as well. That would make no difference being an outright winners. There can only be multiple winners if there is no outright winners. If there is 1, then there shouldn't be any multiple winners included. Thus, I believe there should be only 1 winner in 2006 & 2007 (and so 2008 as the last edition) UEFA Intertoto Cup.
In the mean time, for those who are agree with 11 clubs that won the UEFA Intertoto Cup since 2006 edition, when you edit/update/add, please do it correctly and fully. Dont just update on your favourite teams and leave out those who arent. Remember, there are 22 teams in total that won in 2006 & 2007. I have just looked at the page and I can see some teams haven't been added or update, such as Olympique de Marseille. If the 11 clubs won is right then they should have got 2 Intertoto Cup wins (as in their club page on UEFA website), not 1 as it is now.
I hope this confusions will be clear up asap so we wont have any mess on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Viva69 (talk • contribs) 00:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
