Talk:Tug McGraw

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[edit] Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

Needs references, but otherwise a B.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 13:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

There needs to be a section talking about Tug being the father of country music star, Tim McGraw.

  • It's already mentioned throughout the article. Besides, all Tim McGraw really did was perform the song "Live Like You Were Dying", probably chose to use it because it sounded like it could fit his father's case. It was written my Craig Wiseman & Tim Nichols, so Tim McGraw did not write the song about his father, or even write the song. Zchris87v 16:51, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I plan on adding a portion on his military training during the Vietnam war. I hope that everyone thinks that will be a positive addition! 592LaurenBo 23:07, 17 October 2007 (UTC)592LaurenBo

[edit] Mets colors vs. Phillies colors

While I became a Tug McGraw fan during the 1973 "Ya Gotta Believe" season, I think the defining moments of his career happened with the Phillies during the 1980 NLCS and World Series. Therefore I vote for Phillies' colors. user: hanksummers 7 December 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hanksummers (talk • contribs) 22:01, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

McGraw played more seasons and more games with the Phillies than with the Mets. He got his only Cy Young Award votes while a Phillie. It seems to me his colors should be Phillie colors. Kingturtle (talk) 20:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

First of all, he spent the same number of years with each team. Second, he is most well-known for coining "Ya Gotta Believe," which is essentially the official rallying cry of the Mets franchise. He is also a World Series hero (for a much more famous World Series team in the '69 Mets) with New York and despite getting Cy votes in 1980, his prime years (1969-73) were recorded in a Mets uniform. He should be shown with Mets colors. 68.173.209.19 (talk) 03:14, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

To be accurate, McGraw spent 1965 to 1967 and 1969 to 1974 with the Mets (9 seasons) and 1975 to 1984 with the Phillies (10 years). Kingturtle (talk) 12:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Furthermore, McGraw was Top Ten in Saves 3 times with the Mets and 4 times with the Phillies, Top Ten in Games Finished 3 times with the Mets and 5 times with the Phillies.
His top 2 save seasons (27 and 25) both occurred with the Mets in 1972-73. And his last 3 years with the Phillies were basically as a washed-up, little-used reliever from 1982-84.Jjj222 (talk) 16:28, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Unless you live in Philly, the rest of the world associates Tug with the Mets. (talk) 16:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)Pascack (talk) 03:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't live in Philly. Kingturtle (talk) 12:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
McGraw pitched more innings with the Mets (793 to 722) and posted career-highs in wins, innings pitched, saves, and strikeouts with the Mets. He also went to 2 World Series with the Mets (one of which was one of the most famous teams ever, and the other of which he remains the #1 most representative figure) verus 1 with Philly. If you had to pick his 4 best seasons (1969, 1971, 1972, 1980), 3 of them occurred in New York. Jjj222

He should definitely be in Mets colors, he is one of the top 5-6 most important figures in Mets history. Jjj222 (talk) 16:19, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

He is a World Series hero to both franchises, but if you had to pick one, I'd say it has to be the Mets colors. 1980 aside, all his other best seasons were in New York, and you can't discount "Ya Gotta Believe," which he coined and which remains as the team's eternal slogan. He grew up in the Mets farm system and appeared in 2 World Series for the team. And as someone mentioned earlier, he spent the last 3 seasons of his career as a little-used member of the Phillies bullpen anyway. Gmh224 19:03, 7 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmh224 (talk • contribs)

I only ever hear of him discussed as a Met and so I believe that most people consider him to be a Met before a Philly. The fact that Mets fans still say "ya gotta believe" and Tug didn't leave the Phillies with anything of such great impact has helped to solidify his status as a Met over a Philly. Sure he did a lot for both teams, but that all seems to be about equal amongst the two so I'm going with Mets because he seems to be a lot more important in New York Mets culture than he is in Philadelphia Phillies culture. OlympianX —Preceding comment was added at 01:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

This page had Mets colors ever since its inception, it is not the place of Googie Man or anyone else to come in and make the single decision of what this should be. The colors should stay Mets or blank until a consensus is reached. Gmh224 18:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmh224 (talk • contribs) I think he should have Mets colors--Yankees10 (talk) 02:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Then he should have a picture as a Phillie. Googie man (talk) 02:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
PS Jjj222, Gmh224, and banned IP address 68.173.209.19, are all the same person, so this whole discussion is a fucking farce, especially when I think what this site used to be back in 2002 and 03.

Googie man (talk) 02:20, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Banned IP address 68.173.209.19, Jjj22, Gmh224, JoeIdaho, and Pascack

....First off, uhhhhhh, I KNOW those are the Phillies colors, that's the point! Second, just Google Tug McGraw and see how many searches, pictures, etcetera, come up of him in a Phillies uniform. Like I said, if we're going to have this silly convention of infobox colors, at least make them neutral. But the REAL point is, that you're in your element again. I see that you make ZERO edits on Mets who are unequivocal, such as Darryl Strawberry or Dwight Gooden. You find EVERY LAST borderline case, then instigate trouble. You are *one sick fuck*. Googie man (talk) 18:38, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The only reason you find more photos of him as a Philly is because that part of his career was more recent and camera technology was better (resulting in a great deal more photos available on the internet.) OlympianX —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.43.127 (talk) 22:38, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
And perhaps because Tug McGraw threw the last pitch in the 1980 World Series? Some World Series, people more or less forgetten about, like the 1983 WS, or the 1990 WS. The 1980 was pretty well known at the time. It was an exciting series, and made national stars out of Mike Schmidt, and Tug McGraw. Yes, McGraw's peak as a pitcher was as a Met, I'm not disputing that. However, the total disavowal of his time on the Phillies on the infobox shows bias. Googie man (talk) 03:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
PS You said yourself you live in a city of 18 million people. Jesus Christ, go to a restaurant, see a show, feed pigeons in Central Park. The last thing *I'd* being doing if I lived in the best city in the world is fucking around on Wikipedia. Googie man (talk) 18:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I just thought I'd say I am going to bring this to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball to have neutral colors on retired players infoboxes like the Retired football players have--Yankees10 (talk) 17:25, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant edit, for which I give my unqualified support. Googie man (talk) 18:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)