Talk:Triệu Dynasty
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[edit] About merging this article with Nam Việt
It would be much easier to discuss if those who prpose to merge articles would give reasons. Read here: Talk:Nam Việt why I oppose --峻義 Jùnyì 論 15:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] ====================================================================
Subject: Trieu Da: A Vietnamese Dynasty (View 2) or the First Chinese Domination (View 1)?
Sirs,
View 1 apparently resulted from the definition of Viet as composed of only Au Viet and Lac Viet (Ou Yueh & Luo Yueh).
Consider Nan Yueh. Nan Yueh must have seen a high degree of Volkerwanderung throughout history where (it is more likely the case than not that) some Yueh and Han peoples from the north migrated to and settled down in Ou Yueh & Luo Yueh, and vice versa, the latter mentioned happened to be geographically in the present days' Northvietnam. [An offspring of a Han and a Min Yueh woman was known to migrate south to Ou Luo Yueh a century before Vietnam broke away from China. People that are descended from him, so claim some sources, make up an appreciable proportion of Vietnamese in today's Vietnam.]
Furthermore, Trieu Da (or Chao T'o) wasn't even a Han. He was a Ch'in that became a Yueh who also took a Yueh wife. View 2 (Trieu was an independent period) should therefore be supported. More below.
Yours sincerely,
T.Vd./
PROTOTYPE STATES (Yu Yueh is mentioned in the following for the purposes of reference only):
2879BC - 258BC: Yueh tribe(s): Lac Viet (Luo Yueh), Nation's name: Van Lang, Ruler(s): Hung Dynasty
5th century BC - 4th century BC (333BC): Yueh tribe(s): Yu Yueh, Nation's name: Yueh state (of feudal China), Ruler(s): Yueh king Kou Chiang (Goujian)
257BC - 208BC: Yueh tribe(s): Au Viet & Lac Viet (Ou Yueh & Luo Yueh), Nation's name: Au Lac, Ruler(s): Thuc Dynasty
208BC - 111BC: Yueh tribe(s): Yueh of the southern coast including Ou Yueh & Luo Yueh, Nation's name: Nam Viet (Nan Yueh), Ruler(s): Trieu Dynasty
Notes:
a.) The Vietnamese version claims Vietnam's history to be as old as China's history, but written Chinese records trace the Yueh back to only the 11th century BC.
b.) Yu Yueh is considered part of ancient China's history because "History is written by the victors, not by the vanquished": Proverb.
c.) Au Lac (Ou Yueh & Luo Yueh) might not have been the first Yueh integration in history.
d.) The Yueh integration of Nan Yueh, meaning southern Yueh, did not extend over the rest of the Hundred Yueh. It was so named to distinguish from the early state of Yueh (Yu Yueh).
MORE HISTORY:
Some of the earliest Vietnamese heroes or rulers were Han-Chinese who became Yueh.
1.) Sixth century rebel Ly Nam De was a Han court official who became a Yueh. Rebelled against the Han-Chinese administration of An Nam ("The Pacified South"); the name Ly Nam De meaning Ly, the Southern Emperor (of Nan Yueh).
2.) Fourteenth century general Ho Qui Ly (serving the Tran dynasty) had Han ancestors who can be traced back to the 9th century at the present days' Chekiang (Zhejiang, China).
3.) Trieu Da (or Chao T'o) was perhaps the most significant of them all, a former Ch'in general who founded Nam Viet (Nan Yueh) in 207BC. But, strictly speaking, he wasn't a Han. He was a Ch'in that became a Yueh. [Westerners derived the name China from the Ch'in, even though the Han did not see the Ch'in as their close kin. The Han once saw the Ch'in as "semi-barbaric". In the course of history, the Ch'in became part of the Han identity.]
[edit] Au Lac
Are the Hán tự for Au Lac 瓯駱? Badagnani 04:42, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Changes of dates
Many slight changes of dates have been made recently by an anon editor, regarding the years of reigns, etc. in this article and many others in the History of Vietnam series. This can be very dangerous if we don't know why this is being done. Can each such edit be explained in the future? Otherwise, we're going to have a set of possibly wrong dates for our users to refer to. If the dates conflict in the sources, present the sources at "Discussion" and we will evaluate them and select the correct one. Badagnani 08:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Southern China
How much Chinese was in evidence in this dynasty, as it was a Han general who founded it, and it occupied vast tracts of southern China? Shouldn't there be Chinese characters here as well? The image seems to indicate that most of the territory is not in Vietnam. 132.205.44.5 (talk) 03:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
