Talk:The Rutles

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Contents

[edit] 2003

I have the vinyl somewhere in my mess I will expand later. Don't delete please.

I reverted the recent additions as they looked at first glance to be vandalism. So then I reverted my reversion when I realized this was parody. I am unfamiliar with this group and would think that it would be easy for others who were unfamiliar to think that the whole article is suspect, except for the fact that it has been around for over a year, so it is hence probably legit. Strange group. Nanobug 13:05, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I tried to insert in their fictional history this morning, got several paragraphs in, then found out somebody deleted it... You know, there are two sides to their story: real and fiction. The fictional side deserves to be told too!

[edit] Che Stadium

I have a distant recollection that in the film Che Stadium was named after the Cuban revolutionary Che Stadium. Could someone who has the film please check this Billlion 08:18, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yes, it indeed is. MakeRocketGoNow 18:30, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

That's right. Somebody ruined a perfectly good joke there...

[edit] Ricky Fataar

Is the Ricky Fataar who played Stig the same Ricky Fataar who toured with the Beach Boys in the mid 70s? If so, I think it deserves a mention! --HappyDog 01:55, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes, it indeed is. MakeRocketGoNow 18:27, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)
Incidentally, Stig, the "quiet Rutle," doesn't have a single line in the entire mockumentary. He sings, but he never speaks. --Mr. A. 14:50, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Should someone add something about the newer film, Rutles 2: Can't Buy me Lunch?

DKK

Erm...Rikki Fataar doesn't add much to "Rutles 2: Can't Buy Me Lunch",as he was busy touring as the drummer for Bonnie Raitt. Besides drumming for Bonnie Raitt on a large portion of her recordings, Rikki was a one time Beach Boy. He started out in a band called "The Flames" featuring his brothers. ( They co-incidentally did a lot of Beatles covers! )--Harvey J Satan (talk) 01:41, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] length

This article is longer than the one on the beatles...... 66.33.249.200 02:56, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

What? The insect?LessHeard vanU 16:27, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
  • No! [[The Beatles!]]
  • Gaa! Sorry. Beatles. Anyone find this odd?216.37.227.202 19:07, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beatles lawsuit ?

I presumptuously deleted this section, which looked bogus, and the non-specific link (bmi.com) seemed like a fool's errand.

In settlement of a lawsuit, some Rutles songs are now listed as being co-authored by Lennon and McCartney. As of early 2006, these six songs from the first Rutles CD (which were not on the original LP release) are credited solely to Neil Innes, according to the official BMI web site: "Baby Let Me Be", "Between Us", "Blue Suede Schubert", "Get Up And Go", "Goose Step Mama", "It's Looking Good". The other 14 songs from the CD (that is, all of the songs from the original LP release) have all had John Lennon and Paul McCartney added to the songwriting credits along with Neil Innes.

However, www.bmi.com/search/ does confirm Lennon/McCartney credits to Rutles titles (which should be included in this article -- Wikipedia is not required to sustain the parody). I can't Google any mention of this lawsuit, but am restoring this with a {{citation needed}} cos it now seems more plausible to me. More info (with citation) on this lawsuit would certainly be interesting.

(As an aside, now that George is out of the picture, will Apple sue all of the projects he greenlighted? Bad news for Monty Python & Cirque du Soleil[1]) edgarde 17:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


Ironic, considering "Get Up & Go" was left off the original LP precisely because it was just TOO close to "Get Back" for legal comfort. MrBronson 17:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's bogus, because I heard something about this several months or maybe a year ago and I checked it out, and I did find that the songs were now credited to Lennon/McCartney/Innes. And I do believe it was the BMI web site. If the lawsuit had been brought in the US instead of the UK, I believe the Rutles would have won because parody/satire is constitutionally protected speech and trumps statutory protections in the copyright law...but the lawsuit was brought in the UK, and my understanding is that back royalties had to be paid, the owners of the Beatles songs get a cut of future royalties, and songwriting credits now list Lennon & McCartney as well as Innes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arnold Gallagher (talk • contribs) 09:34, 1 May 2008 (UTC) Arnold Gallagher (talk) 09:36, 1 May 2008 (UTC)Arnold Gallagher

I'm back again. The section should not have been deleted. A quick 30-second trip to bmi.com showed that the songwriting credits are now Innes/Lennon/McCartney. This could easily have been verified before deleting the accurate information. I went to bmi.com and entered "cheese and onions" in the search. I had to click an "I AGREE" button, then the site chastised me for leaving the search field blank, but I entered "cheese and onions" in the search field again and got the page with all 3 names credited as songwriters. It is BMI Work #230135, that may be another way to search. I presume that any other song would yield the same result. If I try to paste the entire URL here it looks like this which may be unusable but here goes: http://repertoire.bmi.com/TitleSearch.asp?querytype=WorkName&page=1&fromrow=1&torow=25&keyname=cheese%20and%20onions&blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=False&blnAltTitles=False User: Arnold Gallagher —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.85.245.104 (talk) 09:03, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cheese and Onion

This song don't sound like anything the beatles done. There's a touch of A Day In The Life in there, but the melody sounds like "Isolation" off of plastic ono band. Can anyone elighten me?--Crestville 11:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I always thought it was a satirical psychedelic extension of the "Yellow Submarine Sandwich" concept. Can anyone tell me whether the word onions in the film was misspelled "onoins" as a joke based on the idea that Lennon mentioned his lover in lyrics whenever possible at the time? Or was that just something that I thought up myself? Britmax 11:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
[2] It's spelt "onions". But the song does go "Do i have to spell it out?/C-H-E-E-S-E-A-N-D-O-N-I-O-N-S/Oh no!", so there is an Ono (oh no) reference in there somewhere. The video is amazing. I actually forgot I was watching The Rutles and thought I was watching "Yellow Submarine", though I stand by my original point, it's not as good a song parody as the others. Except for the "end note"!--Crestville 20:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

It's supposed to be a pastiche, not a parody. MrBronson 17:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

On the original LP the lyrics were "Do I have to spell it out?/C-H-E-E-S-E-A-N-D-O-N-I-O-N-S/Ono". The animation was done by the same animators that did Yellow Submarine. Apepper 10:14, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


To me it seems to have a dose of "Sexy Sadie" in the melody, plus a tip of the hat to "Glass Onion" in the title of course. White Album and "Submarine" soundtrack songs are both 1968, no? -- Neil H.

It utilizes most of the same chords as A Day in the Life, and is SLIGHTLY remniscent of said song. --Kaizer13 17:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

The song is slightly "Mind Games" , slightly "Imagine" ,and with the orchestral build up and solitary end note,"A Day In The Life". When Innes performed it on Saturday Night Live he played the song on just a white piano,reminiscent of the "Imagine"-era Lennon. The solitary end note,is supposed to be a parody of "A Day In The Life"'s long final chord.( Which makes Paul Simon's comment,in "All You Need Is Cash" about the chord that "went on forever" even funnier.He must have been VERY stoned! ). The song also just works for it's appearance in "Yellow Submarine Sandwich",as "A Day In The Life" -a section thereof - is heard as The Yellow Submarine blasts off for Pepperland. The animation was by "Big Little Films' whom still exsist,and do numerous music videos.( Among them: Elvis Costello's "Accidents Will Happen") --Harvey J Satan (talk) 01:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Inhabitants of Rutland?

I lived in Oakham (Rutland) for some years and never heard the locals described as 'Rutles'. The nearest I ever heard was 'Rutlanders'. I suggest this reference be deleted unless a firm citation can be found

82.152.149.195 21:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Must agree. I've been through the Rutland area ( U.K. not Vermont ),and not once were the locals called "Rutles". "Rutlanders" sounds not only most logical,but very probable. I think the person writing the "Archaeology" re-issue liner notes was trying to start a pathetic trend.--Harvey J Satan (talk) 01:18, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Similarity to 1984 film 'Complete Beatles'

Just watched the Rutles DVD last night, and in the extras, Idle mentions (in an excerpt from his (unpublished ?) memoirs that he had access via George Harrison to an unreleased but offically-sanctioned documentary film about the Beatles that was later completed and released, and Idle writes that he tried to emulate the feel of this footage with his Rutles film. It's unclear to me whether or not the film he saw as 'The Long and Winding Road' ended up becoming 'The Complete Beatles'. He mentions Neil Aspinall as the director, but Aspinall's name doesn't appear in IMDB as director or either the Complete Beatles or the Beatles Anthology.

I've reproduced his mention of this issue below. BTW, he also takes credit for the mockumentary format in general, as the Rutles preceded Zelig and Spinal Tap. He overlooks Woody Allen's 'Take the Money and Run' from 1969, and the many shorter "mini-mockumentaries" (including his own work on Monty Python). --Neil H.

Here's the exact quote from Eric Idle about the making of the Rutles:

"[George Harrison] had supported me all the way, encouraging me to do it, telling me endless Beatle stories, and even showing me 'The Long and Winding Road,' an Apple cut of the documentary footage of the Beatles which none of them could agree to release. This Neil Aspinall film eventually became the basis for the recently released 'Beatles Anthology', but for a long time my movie existed as a strange parody of a film no one had ever seen."

From "Say No More," The Unpublished Memoirs of an ex-Python [as reproduced on the DVD extras of "The Rutles: All You Need Is Cash"]

[edit] Reactions by the original

We can read quite a lot in the article of that George loved the project, but I think it ought be interesting to include what the other three Beatles thought about it, maybe also a comment by George Martin if it exists. --Tlatosmd 00:26, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Affectionate and Masterly Songs

I happen to think that the Rutles songs are indeed masterly (masterful?), affectionate tributes. However, there's a lot of that type of thing in this article, and with no citations it seems very POV, so I'm taking those descriptors out. Mrquizzical (talk) 23:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright violation? (Their History (Fictional))

It has been some time since I last saw the movie, but the "Their History (Fictional)" Section resonates as a transcript of the narration of the movie. Someone should check, because if it is such a transcription, then this section is a transcription, then the section constitutes a copyright violation. Acsenray (talk) 18:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds more like (at least the first couple of sections) that it's been taken from the Rutles' official page. Which doesn't really help much does it? Anyway, it's not word-by-word, but perhaps someone should rephrase it to avoid any problems eh? --Kaizer13 (talk) 11:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why "Kevin" Isn't "Pete Best": The Case Against!

For some reason many Rutle-philes,have assumed that the mysterious " Kevin" is in fact a reference to " Pete Best" , this of course is wrong.

Firstly who is "Kevin" ? On the 1976 release "The Rutland Weekend Songbook" , The Rutles are captured on vinyl for the first time - live - and their line-up is listed as Dirk, Nasty, Stig & Kevin.

As most would guess,Eric Idle was in a hurry with the album liner notes and inadvertently wrote "Kevin". Let's face it,Eric was sloppy with the whole original Rutles concept. In the first film Eric is "Dirk" but represents his friend George Harrison.David Batley plays "Stig" whom is the Paul McCartney parody. Nasty only has a last name! ( And yet,there's " The Children Of Rock-N-Roll" by RON Lennon a few tracks later on the same album! ). Obviously he didn't forsee the Rutlemania that would be coming within two years time! Even the birthplace of The Rutles changed from Rutland to Liverpool!

So,here's why "Kevin" isn't " Pete Best":

  • In The Rutles leather jacket photo,the lads are: Dirk,Ron,Stig & Barry. Barry clearly representing the spot where Pete Best would be in The Beatles equivalent photo.
  • On the original " I Must Be In Love (Live)" recording,the announcer says The Rutles are wearing their M.B.E.s. Pete Best wasn't in the band long enough to receive the M.B.E.
  • The original recording is also a song from The Rutles first film " A Hard Day's Rut", Pete Best was out of The Beatles before they made their first film.

Is Leppo , Pete Best?

  • No. Leppo is described as a "friend of Nasty's from art college",and his position in the band was "someone who mainly stood at the back" , descriptions usual associated with Stuart Sutcliffe , John Lennon 's chum from Art College.

Basically, The Rutles never had a " Pete Best".

Baring all this in mind,and if you still wish "Kevin" to be a part of The Rutles universe as opposed to a hastily scribled note by Eric Idle,there actually is a solution! One Man played drums for The Beatles live , after Ringo Starr joined the band,and after they got their M.B.E.s. This One Man is Jimmy Nicol , whom filled in for part of the 1964 Beatles European tour when Ringo had his tonsils removed and was bed-ridden.

"Kevin" IS " Jimmy Nicol" ! ( Which would also show that once again viewers of "Rutland Weekend Television" got the cheap end of the stick. )--Harvey J Satan (talk) 01:22, 20 May 2008 (UTC)