Talk:Territorial evolution of Mexico

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An entry from Territorial evolution of Mexico appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 22 March 2007.
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[edit] Rio Grande/Nueces dispute

I edited to reflect the uncertain nature of the territory between the Rio Grande and and Nueces between the Battle of San Jacinto and the Mexican-American War. Instead of something like "Texas continues to claim large portions of Mexican territory", it now reads "A large area remains in dispute". --YixilTesiphon Say helloBe shallow 14:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

That works. --Golbez 17:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

Great article. Some comments:

  • I think its anachronistic to talk about Qro-Arteaga, Mich-Ocampo and Coah-Zaragoza at the points there mentioned at there in the text: those extra names were added later in honor of C19 & C20 local worthies.
  • Federal district: yes, created in 1824, but not with its current borders (which later changed a couple of times). See the Mexico City article.
  • Aguascalientes - split from Jalisco? or Zacatecas? (And there's a nice Urban legend about "el beso" given to Santa Anna to ensure it's independance.)

All the same, great article and great maps. Aille 18:29, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

The sourced information I have says Jalisco, if you can find a source that says Zacatecas I'll try to fix it. :) --Golbez 19:08, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

OK: [1], [2], and [3] (pdf) all mention Zacatecas, not Jalisco. The last one also talks of a 'division into 50 departments' under Maximilian which, if we could find a map or more information about, would make an interesting digression for this article. Aille 22:01, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Even the tiny bit of Spanish I know says that you're right, so I'll alter the maps accordingly and contact my source. And yes, that would be useful. You seem to know enough Spanish, can you verify if this article is correct and if anything is missing? I don't know any, so I figured the best way to vet/improve it was to throw it to the public - and it's obviously working. :) --Golbez 22:09, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Fascinating stuff. Here's a pdf with a list of Emperor Maximilian's 50 departaments (duly numbered from east-to-west with roman numerals; very Napoleonic) and, thanfully, a map. Big errors in the article? None that I can see, but I do recall seeing at least one C19 map where some states (particularly that west-central part, round Jalisco, Zacatecas, SLP -- silver country?) had exclaves; I'll look later. Here's a paper on "Territorial processes in the Mexican West 1823-1917" which, even if you only read the English-language abstract, will give you an idea of the confusion with changing state borders in that area (eg. Mich-Jal settled only in 1897). Aille 22:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, the individual maps have been updated to incorporate the pre-Aguascalientes land into Zacatecas, rather than Jalisco; I'll generate a new animated map too. --Golbez 12:07, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mexican Empires

Hello Golbez, great work as usual. I was wondering though if the Mexican Empires couldn't be included. At the very least it should be possible to include the Second Mexican Empire's division of departments as shown in the link from Aille above. Since the departments would be different from States and Territories perhaps you could use green to represent them (in a similar but not identical fashion to your use of green to represent the Confederate States in the US maps). All it would require is an extra map (c.1864) plus some addition to the text of the 1869 map (something to the effect that the Second Empire has ended and the states and territories restored...etc). Before looking at Aille's link I had never known of an Arizona department in Mexico (which might cause another addition to the Arizona disambiguation page and a new page on the Arizona department, or at least the departments of the Second Mexican Empire). The First Empire might be a bit more difficult to include since you would have to extend the map southwards to include Central America (from Guatemala to Costa Rica) and then keep them in the other maps as grey foreign areas. Having both Empires would be nice though. Perhaps the page could be divided into sections? One Section on the First Empire, then the section on the United Mexican States (with the Second Empire being a subsection of it)?208.163.48.96 20:27, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] errors/ommissions

There are several errors and omissions in this page. Of course I could just change it, but the maps also have to be changed:

  • Yucatán was independent twice (1841-1843 and 1846-1848)
  • Campeche became a territory in 1857 (Campeche y Carmen) and was granted statehood a year later.
  • A part of Guerrero (the area around Altamirano) was part of Michoacán before 1907
  • The isthmus of Tehuantepec was a separate territory from 1853 to 1857
  • The southwestern part of Campeche (Carmen) was part of Tabasco until 1854. From 1854 to 1857 it was a territory and in 1857 it was added to Campeche.
  • The Sierra Gorda, the northeastern portion of Querétaro was also a territory from 1854 to 1857.
  • Zacatecas declared itself independent in 1835, though it was rapidly defeated.
  • The Federal District has changed its shape and size several times. It started as a perfect circle, was annex to Edomex in 1837, recreated in 1846, enlarged in 1853 and got its final shape in 1902.
  • In the constitution of 1857 there were several minor border changes. Michoacán gained parts of Guanajuato, Zacatecas of Jalisco and SLP and Tabasco of Veracruz.
  • The Revillagigedo Archipelago was awarded to Colima in 1861 (I presume it was inuncorporated before that date).
  • Initially Puebla reached to the Gulf of Mexico, dividing Veracruz in two, this was changed in 1853.
  • Initially border between Chihuahua and Durango was a straight line. I don't know when these things were changed though.
  • From 1913-1915 and 1931-1935 Quintana Roo was reincorporated into Yucatán.
  • From 1835-1845 and 1853-1855 there was a centralist system, the states and territories were replaced by departements. This should someway be included.

Mixcoatl (talk) 17:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Mixcoatl, what about the centralist system under the Second Mexican Empire in the 1860s when there were departments? Shouldn't that be included as well?72.27.91.109 (talk) 07:23, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Baja California and Central America

Hey Golbez, great work, just missing some historical names of Baja California. Also Mexico as an independent nation included the Central American coutries of Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica. JC 13:15, 14 March 2008 (PST)