Talk:Terengganu
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Town vs. City
I changed "The coastal town of Kuala Terengganu" to "The coastal city..." and it was changed back. Why? I think that a "town" of well over 100,000 inhabitants is a city; moreover, I thought KT was a city back in 1975 when the population was about 30,000. Is there some official designation of "kota" as opposed to "bandar"? For now, I'm changing it back to "city," and would whoever changes it back to "town" (if anyone) please indicate why in this discussion page? Thanks.
Michael 6:01 UTC Sep 19, 2005
Clarification needed on Mohammad Akram Jali
Here's the last paragraph under "History," as it stands:
"The hereditary Sultan of Terengganu since 1998 has been Sultan Mizan Zainal Abidin, who is concurrently Deputy Yang di-Pertuan Agong of Malaysia. The Chief Executive or Menteri Besar is currently Dato' Idris Jusoh of Barisan Nasional, a businessman. Mohammad Akram Jali was born in Terengganu in 1984."
No explanation is give of who Mohammad Akram Jali is. I don't know, but would someone who does please add some clarification?
Michael 11:10 UTC March 15, 2006
Contents |
[edit] Diverging POV
Found this on the main page. I'll try to clean it up later:
ATTENTION!!
Note : Who wrote that Terengganu was a Vassal to Siam ?
The Truth
Terengganu had never gave any tribute to Siam and was not even was ever were they vassal or dominion as claim by Siam ..The claimed that Terengganu was part of its dominion resulted from the "Mistake" by the later King of Siam that the “Bunga Emas” and “Bunga Perak” sent by the Sultan of Terengganu in every 3 years was a tributed to Siam. The "Bunga Mas and Bunga Perak" was a gift that was actually a present to Siam as courtesy and token of friendship to Siam
The first Bunga Emas and Bunga Perak was sent in 1781 by Sultan Mansur Shah I of Terengganu was as a gift to reciprocate the various presents given by Siam to him for helping Siam attack and defeat Legor in 1766.and also a present after The Former Siam King Generously divided half of treasure horde that was gain from the war with its neigbour in the year 1766.
AND A British Resident was installed after considerable reluctance in 1919
Who used the Word "installed" ? is a resident a king or Something?
The Truth
There was never was a reluctance and there never was a Resident in Terengganu except for a "British Advisor"
why was there were a "Reluctance" and why it took many year for the British to force the appoitment of a British Advisor was because : During His Royal Highness, The Great Sultan Zainal Abidin III ( 1881–1918) rule, The British had secretly sign the Bangkok Agreement with Siam who claimed that Terengganu was part of its dominion to handed over Terengganu to British in 1909. The Terengganu Government under Sultan Zainal Abidin III, however, rejected this agreement. The British then arrogantly had tried several time to interfered with the state affair of Terengganu .Until another agreement was later signed between Terengganu and Great Britain in 1910. Under the new agreement, Terengganu accepted the presence of a British Representative.but "Representative" was not happy as The were vain or "Reluctance" as all the attempt were spoil by his majesty wisdom on foreign policies and flawless way of governing that had leave no reason for the British to interfere until 1919.
W. L. Conlay was appointed the first British Agent to Terengganu. Sultan Zainal Abidin III rejected this Agreement and disagreed to W. L. Conlay's posting. The dissension on the Bangkok Agreement of 1909 came to an end when Terengganu finally agreed to sign another Agreement with Great Britain on 22nd April 1910. Under the new Agreement, Terengganu officially recognised the appointment of a British Agent.
Be that as it may, the British Agent was not empowered to administer in the running of a free Malay state. Furthermore, in 1911, the Terengganu Government passed the Law for the Self-Government of Terengganu, which, among others, declared Terengganu as a Malay and Islamic State.
The British, dissatisfied with their position in Terengganu, continued to look for ways to involve themselves in the State's administration. They finally succeeded under another Agreement signed on 24th May 1919. Sultan Muhammad, who had succeeded his father, the late Sultan Zainal Abidin III, signed at this ceremony. With effects of this Agreement, Terengganu for the first time obtained the services of a British Advisor. Under Article 11 of this Agreement, the Sultan of Terengganu is to officially accept a British Advisor, provide his accommodation in Terengganu, and to seek and follow his counsels in all administrative matters, except when these concern the religion of Islam.
__earth (Talk) 06:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
From Wikipedia: "Vassal":
"A vassal or liege, in the terminology that both preceded and accompanied the feudalism of medieval Europe, is one who enters into mutual obligations with a lord, usually of military support and mutual protection, in exchange for certain guarantees, which came to include the terrain held as a fief. By analogy it is applied to similar systems in other feudal societies."
Did the regular delivery of bunga mas come with reciprocal obligations from Siam? If so, did they not constitute tribute in kind as part of an agreement between Terengganu and a more powerful neighbor? If some connotations of "vassal" are not applicable, would "tribute" work? I think so.
For the record, I was taught in Sekolah Kebangsaan in Terengganu in the mid 70s that the bunga mas were indeed obligatory and by binding agreement between the King of Siam and the various Sultan. When certain states stopped sending bunga mas, didn't they run into trouble from Siam?
It looks like your point of view on the British and Terengganu was adopted, and very properly so. It is very easy to understand why a proud, independent people were not happy to be controlled in any way by foreigners. I would suggest that the bunga mas were not continued voluntary expressions of thanks for help with an 18th-century military campaign over 100 years later, but rather, a way of effectively buying non-interference in Terengganu's internal affairs. And in Terengganu's case, they worked.
Michael, 06:25, 4 Dec 2006 (UTC)
- Michael, I would to make it clear that it isn't me that disputing the word "vassal". The paragraphs were originally written by an anon at the article page. I took the liberty to move the paragraphs to the talk page. __earth (Talk) 14:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] History section
Why was the section on the history of Terengganu deleted, except for one sentence? I could understand if that were accompanied by a link to a separate article on the history of Terengganu, but there is no such link. The absence of the information that was in this section injures this article and should be returned. I will look through the previous deletions and reinstate the text, but I would really like to know by what reasoning someone felt that subtracting this information was beneficial. Michael 151.202.191.242 02:57, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Monsooncup06.jpg
Image:Monsooncup06.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:48, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] External links
I deleted the link "visit-terengganu.blogspot.com" because that URL displays the homepage of a website. That page does not contribute much additional info to this article. A reader has to browse through that website to find information. A permalink is desired instead.Ancos (talk) 08:41, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
