Talk:Symphony No. 4 (Beethoven)

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	Symphony No. 4 (Beethoven) is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, cleanup, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that aren't covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
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I don't quite see the point of the Musical jokes section. Most of the things mentioned are hardly jokes by my definition, and some of them are hardly worth mentioning at all. For example, I don't consider it very strange or novel to begin a fast movement with a slow introduction; it's been done before, and above all it's not a joke. I currently don't feel bold enough to rewrite it, but please have a look for yourself. EldKatt 7 July 2005 13:42 (UTC)

What the hell is a musical joke? I'm taking it out. 66.41.59.162 01:40, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

To answer your rhetorical question, there are certainly things that could be described as musical jokes: a reasonable example is the very end of Haydn's string quartet Op. 33 no 2. Common compositional techniques, though, aren't jokes, and that goes for everything in the section--who finds a slow introduction to a fast movement funny? Or delaying the recapitulation of a sonata movement? On a more relevant subject, it's still a large bit of text; we might want to make sure there's nothing worth putting in elsewhere. EldKatt (Talk) 19:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV Dispute

Something about this article seems POV. Does anyone agree?--Stratford15 02:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Definitely. There are plenty of examples of the kind of descriptions discouraged in Wikipedia:WikiProject Writing about music. A rewrite is needed. EldKatt (Talk) 10:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] State of the article

I was absolutely appalled when I first looked at this article. It badly needs a complete rewrite. I haven't the time to devote to that chore but I hope that adding the tag will alert others who do. Thanks! --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 03:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I am new to wikipedia editing and I attempted to copy-edit the article but it was rife with opinion and unsupported claims. This needs more then just copy-editing. Alexbarrow 15:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Feeling the same way, I wielded a scalpel (meat cleaver?) on the article. I think we can eventually have a description of musical content and critical opinion, but it ought to come from well-known critics and be attributed to them with footnotes. Opus33 16:38, 5 November 2007 (UTC)