Talk:Stepan Shahumyan

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[edit] Comment

His name is Stepan Shahumyan, not Shaumyan. I know transliterating a name from Armenian to Russian to English can mess it up, but this should be fixed. --RaffiKojian 17:12, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

The information contained in this edit can be found in many sources:

In March 1918 the leaders of Baku Commune attempted to disarm local Muslim forces, while leaving armed all other political forces in the city, which resulted in armed confrontation between the Bolshevik forces, supported by the Armenian nationalist Dashnak militants, and Muslim militia. After the defeat of Muslim forces Dashnaks killed thousands of Muslim civilians in the city of Baku and neighboring areas.

Please do not remove it just because you don't like it. Grandmaster 13:34, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

In addition to Smith, here's another source:

In March 1918 a showdown over the Soviet's demands for the disarming of Muslim troops ended with a two-day-long rampage through Muslim neighborhoods by Armenian soldiers allied with the Soviet, during which the soldiers set fire to a large part of the city and killed thousands.

Benjamin Lieberman. Terrible Fate: Ethnic Cleansing in the Making of Modern Europe. ISBN-10: 1566636469

--Grandmaster 13:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Smith as a source is unacceptable. The other source is academic and well written. The text should be modified accordingly to comply with the data provided by Benjamin Lieberman.-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 17:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree completely. As it stands now, it's way too POV. -- Clevelander 23:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Please explain why such a notable scholar as Smith is not acceptable. Also, what Septemeber events have to do with Shaumian? He was not involved, by that time he left to Turkmenistan. Grandmaster 05:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Please tell me why Smith is notable at all. If he's so notable why can't you provide a source in English? -- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 17:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Michael Smith is a professor of Georgetown University. He is a specialist on Russian history and wrote books and articles on that topic. And who said that the source has to be in English? The article was written for Sakharov center, to a Russian language project, that’s why it’s in Russian. Grandmaster 18:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

That's great but why is he notable? The point remains that his interpretation is not neutral while Lieberman states the facts only.-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 23:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

His description of events is factually accurate, you may not like him, but we cannot dismiss a reliable source just because of that. Grandmaster 06:05, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I have striked out the following in the article. I don't its relevant in the article. it just sticks out.

Levon Shahumyan, Stepan Shahumyan's son, was the assistant editor-in-chief of the Soviet Encyclopedia at the beginning of the 1970s.

IF someone wants to integrate that into the article it would be nice. I personalty don't see anywhere that it can be added. VartanM 21:42, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe a paragraph can be created about his family? Grandmaster 10:22, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I think mentioning Levon being the editor-in-chief is fine, as it is a notable position it itself. But, we need sources for that. John Vandenberg 12:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

There's an article about Lev Shaumyan in Great Soviet Encyclopedia: [1] Grandmaster 12:39, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think words like "hostile Turkish army" with wikilink to ethnicity of Turks are at all appropriate and neutral in this case. So, let's avoid original research in future. Shaumian prepared for struggle against Ottoman Army of Islam not Turkish army as known today per se, moreover, he was deposed and executed by Britons not Turks. Atabek 20:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Hello Mr. Atabek. I think the author of the article was being as accurate with the sources as possible. I changed some of your edits but hope that they are not too egregious.

Instead of wikilinking to "Turks", I linked it to "Ottoman Empire" but I don't think this was even necessary since the word hostile and Turk really have no connection with the behavior of Turks today.

In regards to his and the other Baku 26's deaths, this is the way it is written in most books. The British captured them at Krasnavotsk, then handed them over to the authorities at Ashkabad. As it is clearly sourced in this article, the British had no explicit hand in the execution of Shahumyan and his comrades as they originally wanted to trade them for British prisoners held by the Bolsheviks. Peter Hopkirk is a great authority when it comes to Central Asia and he says the same thing.

The last and final edit was in regards to the NK reference. I think it makes sense to say this only once since a reader who clicks on the link will find out that Karabagh is not recognized by any country in the world. Regards, cheers,--204.102.210.1 21:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

All good points. Also, the sources on this article write that 10,000-20,000 Armenians were killed by Enver's forces; while March Days appear to be pretty horrific, the number dead seem to disqualify it from the conditional "most" and by itself, seems too unnecessary and far too specific for a lead about a Soviet revolutionary. --Marshal Bagramyan 21:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Which sources? Armenian National Council in Baku reported figure less than 9,000 for September 1918 events, when Ottoman Army of Islam entered Baku (not "Enver's forces"). The confirmed figure for March Days was at least 12,000. What you call a Soviet revolutionary was actually a war criminal who engaged in massacre of civilian population fueling further ethnic conflict between two communities in order to gain political power. Atabek 18:10, 26 October 2007 (UTC)