Talk:Square academic cap

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[edit] Chinese mortarboard-style cap worn by emperors

What about the Chinese mortarboard-style cap worn by emperors (see Huang Di or Qin Shi Huang)? --Dpr 04:08, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

You are referring to the Chinese emperor's mian (冕) which has nothing whatsoever to do with the Western mortarboard or academia. The ancient Chinese version of the mortarboard is the si-fang pingding jin (四方平定巾). --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 21:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] disambiguation?

I just made a new page called Mortar Board (honor society). I think there should be a disambiguation page, but I do not know how to make one yet.

~

Mortarboard is a solecism. This is an academic cap, as in cap and gown. Charles Matthews 17:39, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

How long do the majority of speakers have to use a word before it becomes legitimate? We borrowed the mortier from French magistrates what—300 years ago?[1] And how quickly did it become "mortarboard"? 20 years later maybe? --Tysto (talk) 03:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

We have two claims I am not sure are compatible:

The term "mortarboard" derives "from the French mortier, a type of toque";
"Its colloquial name derives from its resemblance to the board upon which mortar is placed by a bricklayer."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=mortar has mortier in the etymology, so it's just possible that both are right, but I am unsure. Does anyone know? —Vivacissamamente 05:08, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

~

I looked around the internet and found that the statement "from the French mortier, a type of toque" is irrelevant because "mortier" in french means mortar (the bricklaying kind.) I think It should be changed to something about mortar and not a french word (but im not skilled enough to modify it :P)

The hat and the word came over together. Here is the chronology—more or less. Sometime in the late Middle Ages, French magistrates added a board on top of their skull caps. Other Frenchmen noticed the resemblance to a bricklayer's mortarboard and called it a "mortier," the French word for the board a bricklayer carries mortar on. Later, English scholars adopted the hat and the word "mortier" to describe it and soon began calling it a "mortarboard," the English translation of "mortier." Much later, very stuffy university types began calling it a "square academic cap" because "mortarboard" didn't seem dignified. Of course, they could have just adopted a different cap, since it looks positively ridiculous compared even to other Medieval caps,[2] but the Royal Societies of arts and science have a centuries-old bet going with the British Law Society about who will change their ridiculous headgear first [3] and it looks like a stalemate. --Tysto (talk) 04:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tassel traditions?

Details regarding the tassel ought to be mentioned here; where they came from, symbolism, and traditions (such as moving the tassel from one side to the other upon receiving one's diploma). ProhibitOnions 23:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Is there a general rule on which side the tassel is to be worn? --212.144.136.86 11:36, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I have a question regarding this phrase and the tassel: "In some ceremonies, the student wears the tassel on the right up until reception of the diploma, at which point it is switched to the left." During both my high school and bachelor's degree ceremonies, we wore them on the left until the reception of the diploma, and then it was switched to the right. Do you think this should be edited to simply say "In some ceremonies, the student wears the tassel on one side up until reception of the diploma, at which point it is switched to the other." ? Or are my schools just among the minority? Pike 21:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I wrote the section on tassels based on minimal research. It has been changed. -Beard0 23:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Masonic Symbol

Is there no connection with Freemasonry, this is where I understood it came from, the gown also having occult overtones —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.211.130 (talk) 07:02, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

There actually IS a connection with freemasonry, and with the priestly robes of the period of Solomon's temple, which I shall document in future, but for now, I've simply removed the errant and misleading assertion that the word mortarboard comes "from the French mortier, a type of toque."
In fact, the etymology is just the opposite. The O.French "Mortier" is the source of the English word Mortar, which is the goop masons place on top of a mortarboard. The academic cap is called a mortarboard because it resembles one. It may resemble one by design -- which is the possible free-mason connection, and which bears documentation. In any event, the briefly fashionable toque-like "mortier" post-dates the academic cap by centuries. Possibly millenia, as I shall document when I find the time. It's all fun stuff, but requires better documentation than I have without pulling out some books and journals. -- TheEditrix2 21:53, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
BTW, Masonry and "occult overtones" sound good in a Dan Brown novel, but don't belong in the same sentence in an encyclopedia. All traditionally religious and all new-age beliefs are "occultic" -- since they all rely on the supernatural -- but Masonry is no more occultic than any other faith tradition. As you'd have eventually discovered on your own, but I'm saving you the bunny trails. -- TheEditrix2 21:58, 19 February 2008 (UTC)