Talk:Special Service Group

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User:Idleguy recently copied all the content from Special Services Group over to this article to change the title. Unfortunately this also eradicated the old edit history. I'd like to revert his edits, redirect this page, then perform a proper move so that the old edit history is preserved under the new title. Any objections? - Tronno ( t | c ) 14:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I just realized that a proper move (with original edit history) is no longer possible without admin help. Since I'm too lazy to ask for help, I'm going to leave it as it is. In the future however, instead of simply copying the content manually, please use the "move" button at the top of the page to move articles. - Tronno ( t | c ) 04:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Please also remove the statement "The SSG has also conducted many operations in Siachen Glacier against Indian positions. The most noted one took place in 1987 when Pervez Musharraf (then Brigadier) orchestrated an SSG unit assault on Indian posts, but was eventually beaten back.[6]"

The citation and source # 6 does not mention anything about an SSG assault under Musharraf, which btw is an idiotic and misinformed statement in the first place. Musharraf was not in the SSG in 1987 (he got out in the 70's). This is corroborated in his book "In the line of fire" as well.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Turried (talk • contribs)

I believe that line has to be read carefully. It only says orchestrated an SSG unit assault on Indian posts and the stated source #6 reveals Musharraf had patronized Gilani in 1966, encouraging him to set up the "Climbers Club of Pakistan," a front for training the Special Services Group (SSG) commandos in mountain climbing. Members of the unit were used in the 1985-1987 attacks on Indian positions at Bilafond Pass. In order to pull the strings on one SSG unit, one need not be associated with the SSG at the time the operation took place. Probably a rewording is required to better explain how Musharraf was involved in that attack's background. Idleguy 15:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 Vandalism 2 Copyvio and vandalism 3 Kargil War 4 Article protected

[edit] Vandalism

the user Idleguy removed most of the article by a simple excuse of article being lengthy which is not a sufficient excuse and editted the article to which he was satisfied with. A clear attempt to vandalise and disrupt valuable contributions made by Wiki users. Any further attempts will be reported to senior Wikipedia admins and WikiProject Pakistan users. Faraz 00:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

My crib isn't about length per se, but that it is suspiciously a cut-n-paste job AND riddled with several glaringly obvious factual errors not to forget that it's still unsourced statements. Also interesting how the few sourced statements are being removed too. please report to senior admins and they'll be able to see the exact issue. Idleguy 02:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I do agree that many of the statements made are not cited or sourced properly but we should not speculate and completely remove the article, as we have the ^{[citation needed]} key available to challenge any addition that is based on Wikipedia:OR. I will tidy up the page and add refrences from time to time to guarantee better results. Faraz 22:52, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not speculating, just consider that patronizing or ironic voices in WP isn't allowed. "On that fateful day" among other lines are more suited for a novel or partisan publication than an encyclopedic article. I have no objections with expanding but the version I'm removing to seems to have been penned with such tones. Idleguy 01:17, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio and vandalism

The para "In the 1971 Indo-Pak War, 3 Cdo Bn... cleared more than 2,000 square miles from the Indian supported rebels in the Chittagong Hill Tracts" is a selective cut and paste from [1] and thus has been rightly removed for Wikipedia:Copyrights violations. Also the anon 202.83.173.122 has been regularly removing reliably sourced statements despite repeated attempts to inform him. This is just for the record. Idleguy

One of the link provided by you (Idleguy)is http://www.kashmirsentinel.com/apr1999/3.9.html If you read the passage, you would come to know that Pakistan raised an elite Special Service Group (SSG) commandos in 1987, now it is upto you to decide who is trying to mislead others. If SSG was raised in 1987, then how could it have taken part in the 1965 & 1971 Wars. This means the whole article has been written by some Anti-Pakistan writer. Moreover, it says that Gen Musharraf was leading the attack, I have close contacts in SSG, and I can assure you that he never served in SSG either as Battalion Commander or a Brigade Commander or a Division Commander. He was in SSG only till he was a major and has never been posted to SSG again.

The second link provide by you isn't even working. See it for yourself. http://www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?volume_id=400&issue_id=3101&article_id=2368659

If you want to respond, there is no need to remove what I've posted earlier about your copyright violating editing that removes sourced statements just on what you believe to be "anti-pakistani". Anything that now doesn't fit your fancy doesn't get thrown out of an encyclopedia, is it? It doesn't work that way. As far as the 1987 thing, the source was referring to the Khapalu base, having omitted the "base" word as another source here most likely the primary one indicates clearly. And yes, that link does work in my browser. Just checked it now. Unless you don't want to read the facts. Idleguy 18:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kargil War

In the Kargil War, Pakistan Army didn't withdrew due to Indians but due to American Pressure, which the incompetent PM (Nawaz Sharif) of Pakistan couldn't resist.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.83.173.122 (talk • contribs)

The Pakistani PM wouldn't have rushed to seek Washington's help if their troops were winning in Kargil. Idleguy 16:08, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

This was his (PM) fault, not of his armed forces, that he was still a slave-minded person taking orders from the America. The Indian Govt was pressurizing the Clinton Govt to do so otherwise they would have lost major part of India during The Kargil War.

I find this line really amusing: Indian Govt... " would have lost major part of India". With such a "knowledgeable" take on history, I'm wondering if this is all a joke by you? Idleguy 04:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Face the realities, Don't shy off them. YOU SO CALLED KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON

[edit] Article protected

Hi all. I have fully-protected this article due to continual edit-warring. Please try to resolve your differences here on the talk page as right now, the two main reverters have reached their 3RR limit and continue to do so on a daily basis. I have no knowledge of this article subject and will not judge as to which one is the "right" version. Also, the article was moved some weeks back but this talk page was not. Moved now .. - Alison ☺ 17:09, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Most commando operations are kept secret and what happened is usually unknown, secondly it is true that Indian Army had heavy casualties including killing of Senior Officer of Brigadier rank during Kargil. What more can be evident that indian Airforce lost two Fighter Jet like they were over Pakistan Land just to give them Target. Many non-muslim coutries too prefer to get a SSG commando Instructor inspite Indian Commando Instructor is available. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebadhashmi (talk • contribs) 23:14, 4 May 2008 (UTC)