Template talk:Sonic character

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[edit] Height and weight

What purpose do the height and weight fields serve? I don't understand what encyclopedic purpose having the the height or weight of fictional characters serves, especially since it's generally not something that is commented on even in passing in the works in question. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 10:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Did you see the page history before you reverted? Okay, you'll find that link there. In regards to your issue with these fields, they are mentioned in the lead sections of the following articles: Sonic the Hedgehog (character), Knuckles the Echidna, Miles "Tails" Prower, Amy Rose, Shadow the Hedgehog and Rouge the Bat. This information comes from the official character profiles and is verifiable information and I therefore think it satisfies WP:RS and is encyclopedic. The reason why we made this template is to move this information out of the prose and into the box according to WP:LEAD. (None of us want to delete valid information, so we decided to move it elsewhere into the article; we lacked an infobox and we decided that an infobox was a good place to put it.) However, if this bothers you that much, I invite you to find a good place to put the sourced information into the article(s) that is not in the lead section(s). Thank you. --DavidHOzAu 11:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

That's the thing; I don't think it's encyclopedic information. We don't list height and weight for real people, and the height and weight are never once commented upon in the actual source works (I don't remember once in any game, comic, or TV show someone saying, "Wow, you're just over three feet tall, Sonic!") and indeed they are misleading: Sonic, despite being listed as just over three feet tall in whatever official character profile on whatever fan-specific Sega site, is never significantly shorter than adult humans.

I don't understand what encyclopedic understanding this information offers. It may be verifiable, but it's sub-trivial.

Also, when you remove a field from the template, the information is still in the article source; it's just not visible. If I remove the height and weight fields from the template, it doesn't obstruct in any way moving the height and weight somewhere else in the article. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

You're right, the article(s) would proably be better off without them, and I have nothing against you removing those fields when you put it that way. However, Sonic is usually shown being significantly shorter than most humans, even 12 years olds. [pic] Although I admit that I didn't think of comparing him with full grown adults, I'll have to that to the article. Perhaps it would be better to make this comparison without specifically mentioning height and weight at all? --DavidHOzAu 12:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

It would probably be better to mention that sort of thing in the prose where appropriate, yes. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 12:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to say but even the creators themselves state the height weight of characters not only on their official websites but also on the anime Sonic X. And many fans like to know this information, and it enhances the imagination of many fans in fan fics or little kids playing.

So Sonic goes up to Tails and says, "My, you're exactly two and a half feet tall!" in Sonic X? I think not. I still maintain that height and weight of fictional characters isn't encyclopedic information, and can be left to the "official profiles" full of trivial information and the fansites that slavishly reproduce those details. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 16:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's important in absolute values so much as it is in relative values. In order to express the relative size of characters, we can use absolute values, since we're unlikely to find any sources that say "Sonic is about as tall as a...", well, you get my drift. Therefore, I'd say it is encyclopedic information as long as we can cite it (and we can). Where else are you going to get relative size information? If it's official information, I don't see what's wrong with using absolute values of height and weight. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 16:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah and the height, weight and age is some of the little real world info the articles have. Delete that and entire articles may as well be deleted for lacking real world info, (god knows people have tried deleting these articles on those grounds before).Fairfieldfencer FFF 16:52, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I think you have a misunderstand of what constitutes "real-world" information. Sonic's height, weight, and age are not real-world information, as Sonic does not exist in the real world. Another problem is that there is no "current" in fiction, so the age of a fictional character only has meaning with a reference point—and which reference point should we use? I suggest you stop with the edit war and discuss the matter. If there is consensus to add the fields, they will be added without a fight. If there is not, the fields will be removed. Pagrashtak 19:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow this is an old arguement from 2006. Well I can't find any Wikipedia rule against height and weight and such in infoboxes (in fact the Template:Infobox_Tennis_player uses them). As fictional characters their attributes are not variable (much like the Simpsons characters' ages). They are also properly sourced from info released by the creators of the Sonic games (and they appeared in the Japanese version of Sonic X on on-screen catch cards before being cut out in the English translation). Lastly calling them unencyclopedic is incorrect since encyclopedic means comprehensive. A better arguement would be 'are they notable' or does 'what Wikipedia is not' allow it, I would argue that yes it is; they help with the understanding of the character just like the main picture is supposed to. As for a better place to put them, I don't really see one without a rewriting and renaming of sections. The only place most articles touch on the 'physical' design of the characters is in the opening, but it looks awkward there. Cigraphix (talk) 20:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

In fact they are variable. To take the example you gave, according to our article for Homer Simpson, his age varies from 36 to 40 between seasons. You'll notice that no age is given in his infobox. Of course it's relevant to include height and weight for a tennis player, as that has a direct impact on the sport. It's notable that Nolan Ryan is right-handed and proper to display that in the infobox. You would not, however, display the handedness of George W. Bush in his infobox. Pagrashtak 20:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Have you ever played a Sonic game? In every game, Sonic is fifteen years old, Tails is eight, and so on. The only real exception is the fact that Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood flat-out states that the events take place "one year later". I'm going to stick to my claim that it's encyclopedic on a relative terms basis. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 14:37, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Continued at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Sega#Template:Sonic_character and Wikipedia_talk:VG#Sonic_info