Talk:Site of Special Scientific Interest

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Re adding the Woodland management link- sensitive woodland mangement can be relevant to SSSI's so hopefully as both articles develop the relevance of a link will become apparent...) Cheers quercus robur

Contents

[edit] List of SSSIs

The list of SSSIs on this page is never going to be complete, I suspect. I'm not sure it adds much to the page. Perhaps it should be made into a category (if there isn't already one) and removed from the actual SSSI page? A few examples of SSSIs with reasonable pages can serve instead. Any views on this suggestion? Naturenet 11:02, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree - given that there are over 4000 SSSIs in England alone [1], attempting to list them is not only a futile task but could be quite misleading (someone visiting the page at the moment could be forgiven for thinking that they're mostly found in Derbyshire, Kent and Somerset). Most SSSIs would never qualify for an article on that basis alone, anyway. A category is the way forward I think. Blisco 14:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How protected

The article fails to explain what ramifications the designation has. HOw are these areas protected? Owned by the state?, restricted from development?, restricted from entry? just a pretty name to hang on the door? Rmhermen 17:27, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I've had a go at covering the legal aspects -- any comments? Richard New Forest 23:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New template

I've set up a new template, {{SSSI}}. Using * {{SSSI|1003826}} generates:

Link to example

I'm happy if people want to copy this for other countries; or to add a country/ designating body field and the relevant URLs. Andy Mabbett 11:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Areas of Search problem (England only)

Hi. We have a small problem with the English Areas of Search. The areas which we list don't quite match the actual Areas of Search as originally defined by the NCC. Most of the problem is because some of the larger counties were divided into two or more AOSs but there also some smaller deviations from the metropolitan counties-based system, usually where there is a National Park involved. The Welsh & Scottish ones are fine.

Here's the list of AOSs that are OK (I've linked to the SSSI list pages):

Avon • Bedfordshire • Berkshire • Buckinghamshire • Cambridgeshire • Cheshire • Cornwall • Dorset • East Sussex • Gloucestershire • Greater London • Hertfordshire • Isle of Wight • Kent • Lancashire • Leicestershire • Northamptonshire • Nottinghamshire • Oxfordshire • Shropshire • Somerset • South Yorkshire • Surrey • Warwickshire • West Midlands • West Sussex • West Yorkshire

The problem cases are as follows:

a) Counties that are comprised of multiple Areas of Search

b) Other problems

  • Cleveland - doesn't exist as an AOS, Cleveland SSSIs are in either the E Durham AOS or the N York Moors AOS
  • Derbyshire & Staffordshire - the Peak District NP is an AOS in its won right
  • Greater Manchester and Merseyside - these two are combined as a single AOS
  • Tyne and Wear - doesn't exist as an AOS, Tyne & Wear SSSIs are in either the E Durham AOS or the E Northumberland AOS

What shall we do? SP-KP (talk) 13:38, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

It is already covered to some extent earlier in the article, under biological SSSIs. The AoSs as they were in the original selection guidelines (which being for the NCC applied to the whole of Britain) were Watsonian vice counties (well-established divisions used for biological recording, roughly based on the administrative counties). In theory Natural Areas ([2]) ought to have replaced the vice-counties as the Areas of Search in England. The vice-county system does lead to anomalies, where county boundaries cut through more natural features, requiring both AoSs to represent the feature in the SSSI series – for example there are two almost identical woods half a mile or so apart, one notified for Kent, one for Surrey (if you go to the Clacket Lane services on the M25, you're surrounded by the Surrey one). Nevertheless, most existing SSSIs were selected under the vice-county system, and the NE web page makes them sound current:

"Areas of Search (AOS) are a practical framework for the selection of sites within the national range of variation in habitats and species assemblages resulting from differences in environmental factors – climate, topography, geology, soils and land-use. Within each AOS, a minimum aim will be to represent all the differenthabitats and species that are present by at least one – and preferably the best – example or population. In practice, administrative areas i.e. counties or vice-counties, have been adopted as the AOS for SSSI selection"[3]

Geological SSSIs (and some biological ones such as rivers) have never been selected using AoSs, but nationally. Richard New Forest (talk) 20:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Richard.

Re: "The AoSs as they were in the original selection guidelines (which being for the NCC applied to the whole of Britain) were Watsonian vice counties" - I have the original guidelines in front of me now, and that's not the case, I'm afraid - although you are correct in saying that in some of the larger counties e.g. Norfolk, Devon, the VC boundary was used as the basis for the subdivision (hence, NE's statement is true, although it clearly has the potential to mislead).

What I was getting at here is - what should we do regarding the lists of SSSIs. Some accurately reflect an AOS, some combine more than one, and some (e.g. Cleveland) use a different area entirely. The standard introductory text, however, says (I paraphrase) "This is a list of SSSIs in the X Area of Search". Options include - a complete re-structuring of the pages as per the AOSs, leaving as is, with changes to the introductory text where it is inaccurate, or something in between. Any preference?

SP-KP (talk) 22:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I've listed the English AOSs at Area of Search SP-KP (talk) 22:24, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

This certainly does make the listing of SSSIs more complicated than I first thought. At the moment I would prefer to keep the current lists that we have. The first reason for this is that the Natural England website lists SSSIs in the same counties that we have lists for (see here). Second the pdf files for each SSSIs that I have seen list the county the site is in and hardly ever mention the AOS. However some changes will be necessary. Introductions on each list will need to talk about which and how many AOS are incorporated in the list. For example the Cleveland list could have an extra column showing whether a site is in the E Durham or N York Moors AOS. Thoughts? Suicidalhamster (talk) 10:19, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
The citations only list the planning authorities, not the AoSs – so they will not, for example, list Hampshire County Council for a site in Southampton Unitary Authority, and the New Forest will list the New Forest National Park Authority as well as Hampshire CC and New Forest District Council (though bear in mind that the many citations are quite old, and may predate the current planning authority situation). The NE website (mostly) uses the counties (not AoSs) as they were before Unitary Authorities, and I think that is also the way to do it here. --Richard New Forest (talk) 10:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Are there lists online showing which AOS a particular site is in? This would be useful for referencing the appropriate lists. There are many pdfs here do they have the relevent information? Suicidalhamster (talk) 12:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Referencing problem

The English Nature citation sheets are now no longer viewable at the web location cited in our articles here. I'll try to find out whether they are still online - presumably they're at Natural England's website. We'll need to do an update across all SSSIs - not a small task - maybe it could be done semi-automatically? Does anyone have any experience of bulk updates? SP-KP (talk) 09:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

They appear to be back online - lets hope they stay like that! Suicidalhamster (talk) 18:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
They are? :) A long time in the waiting. Rudget (Help?) 19:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)