Talk:Simon & Garfunkel

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Former featured article Simon & Garfunkel is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
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[edit] Questions

It says "They met in high school in 1953," but in 1953 they would have been 11 or 12 years old. Also, further down, it says they had known each other since playing together as kids (and they grew up practically next door to each other). I'm no expert on them, so I don't have a correction to suggest.

Anyone ever noticed that by placing a finger horizontally on the picture of the 'Bridge over troubled waters' album cover, just covering Paul Simon’s eyebrows, Art Garfunkel magically grows a spiffing Cossack style moustache?

According to this entry, "Red Rubber Ball" reached #2 in the charts. According to The Cyrkle's entry, it reached #1. Which is correct?


"Twee"'s closest equivalent in North American English would be "cutesy", I'd say. It's peculiar to Britain, I think, and I only know what it means because I read their music press....It's a highly useful word, though. --Paul Drye

It's not only a British word. It's actually entered music jargon in the States and Britain: "twee pop" is a term commonly used to refer to deliberately cute indie pop. "Preciously cute" might be a better definition.

Surely the 'soaring vocals' on Bridge over Troubled Water are mainly Paul Simon's, not Art Garfunkel's?

Nope, that's Art. --LDC

Wouldn't it be better if all these pages that are being developed to outline the discography of S&G were together on one page? Eclecticology

"(Lewis had refused to lip-synch and insisted on performing live, which was unprecedented on Bandstand.)" Is this really relevant?

[edit] Request for references

Hi, I am working to encourage implementation of the goals of the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. Part of that is to make sure articles cite their sources. This is particularly important for featured articles, since they are a prominent part of Wikipedia. The Fact and Reference Check Project has more information. Thank you, and please leave me a message when you have added a few references to the article. - Taxman 17:20, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

This article needs to be cleaned up. There is a heading called reunification that refers to events in 1996, that is listed before another heading called subsequent careers, that refers reunifications in 1975 and 1981. This article is too confusing and needs to more chronological. Rogerd 15:48, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Citizen of the Planert

"a "new" studio duo song, "Citizen of the Planet", ironically the only song from the rejected 1983 reunion album that did not originally feature Garfunkel's vocal participation." Is this really certain? On the S&G bootleg of Hearts & Bones, Art can only be heard on two songs... Hakanand 07:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

This article claims that the album was completed. Simon has claimed that he did not remove Garfunkel's vocals from the recordings because Garfunkel had never got round to recording them. If the two people closest to the project cannot agree on what actually happened the I guess we will never really know for certain. Keithmall 10:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A lesson for Wikipedians

In 2004, it seemed that Simon and Garfunkel were at last going to get back together again. Do you think that there might be a lesson here for all fans of Wikipedia, in that this might be a portent of a future rapprochement between Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger?ACEO 18:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jesus references in Mrs. Robinson??

What the heck is this topic even doing in discussion? It has nothing to do with anything on the actual page for S&G!

Wasn't Garfunkel Jewish? Why is he singing "Jesus loves you more" in the song "Mrs. Robinson" ?? Davez621 09:40, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Thet's because the song is a soundtrack, and that it's made for the move "The Graduate". Anyways, Paul Simon, who wrote the song, never did much out of either his or Artie's jewish background. Then You might also wonder why Garfunkel has song "Oh come all ye faithful". As I said, their parents were jewish, but that does'nt mean that you can't sing about Jesus.

True, but name one Christian or Jewish artist who sings about Allah? Do you think any Christian artists sing about Hashem? (Norman Greenbaum is another example of a Jew who sang about Jesus in his song "Spirit in the Sky") Davez621

Another example is Leonard Cohen's Suzanne. Charlie MacKenzie 20:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Don't forget Walking in Memphis by Jew Marc Cohn with the lyric "are you a Christian child/ma'am I am tonight."

I think it's rather commercial, all of it. Both Simon, Grafunkel and Cohn are Jewish, but it is and was Western people who are the customers of their music. If a christian artist would have to sing about that "Allah loves you", I suppose the lyric must be really intelligent to sell millions of albums. But as a Paul Simon fan, and the fact that he in my opinion allways set the writing in front of the money he earns from it,I must agree that the chorus in Mrs. Robinson is related to the movie The Graduate, and that's the only reason why Paul shoud mention it. But when S&G sang f.ex. "Go Tell it on the Mountain" on W.M.3p.m., that was in the start of their carriere, and THAT was a part of earning money. On the other side, "7 O'clock news/silent night" also is a "christian" song, but the radio in the background make the lyrics in the song rather paradoxial than a prayer.

Ok, but why is Courtney Love singing "Jesus loves you more than you will know" if she is Jewish too? I found an mp3 of the Simon & Garfunkel song "Mrs. Robinson" played by Courtney Love on the Internet.

Maybe because it's a nice song, and she wanted to sing it. She can't just remake the text, I suppose. Andd it's a well known fact that the "christian" lyrics in the song not is supposed to salvate anyone. The text is saying to Mrs. Robinson - the main character in the movie - that Jesus loves HER, mostly to cheer her up. And Mrs. Robinson is christian. The song isn't telling each and every listener on the planet that Jesus loves THEM.

If you wonder so much about the text in Mrs. Robinson, who is correctly reffered to here, then why don't you asc why they alsp for example sing "Go tell it on the mountain, Jesus Christ i born!"?

Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe it was an empty reference, or, given Mrs. Robinson's aldulterous ways, a slightly sardonic comment?

I keep reading people referring to The Graduate, and that this song was written for it. This is untrue. According to the insert booklet in the Old Friends 3-disc set, Simon was writing a song about Eleanor Roosevelt titled 'Mrs. Roosevelt', Mike Nichols asked if he would change it to Mrs. Robinson for the film.

[edit] Tom Graph

According to the article, so called because he was fond of tracking ("graphing") hits on the pop charts. Is this true? According to Paul Simon's biography by Laura Jackson, it was due to his interest in Mathmatics. He did have a Masters of Science in Mathematics, after all. Charlie MacKenzie 20:47, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scarborough Fair

The article states that Martin Carthy composed Scarborough Fair; in fact, it's a traditional English ballad, whose original author is unknown. S&G's version is credited to "Trad. arr. Simon/Garfunkel". Martan 00:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

If something is incorrect feel free to amend it yourself. I've removed that bit of Trivia which also implied that Dylan's "Girl from the North Country" was based on the S&G melody whereas it predates the S&G version. It is possible Dylan could have learned the song from Martin Carthy the same way Paul Simon did. S&G's version has always been credited to Simon / Garfunkel. Keithmall 09:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discography and singles chart on main article

Does anyone else think only their studio albums and possibly their Central Park album should be listed there? They have a discography page were their various compilation albums should be listed. -LoserTalent 06:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is it "&" or "And"?

Hi, A pretty useless question here, sorry for that: is it Simon & Garfunkel, or Simon And Garfunkel? I've looked at their album sleeves, and they're pretty undecided themselves: Wednesday Morning 3AM, Sounds of Silence, Bookends, Old Friends: Live on Stage and the 1999 compilation all use an ampersand; whilst Parsley..., Bridge..., Concert in Central Park and the 1972 compilation all use 'and'. I know it doesn't matter much, but which version is 'preferred'?

90.241.133.190 08:50, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unverified and illogical claims

    • The section 'Reformation and success' mentions that:

'Among the tracks on The Paul Simon Songbook that were rerecorded with electric backing for Sounds of Silence were "I Am a Rock" ... "Leaves That Are Green", "April Come She Will", "A Most Peculiar Man", and "Kathy's Song".'

'Kathy's Song', 'April Come She Will' and (as most would argue) 'Leaves That Are Green' are NOT electrified in their Sounds of Silence versions.

      • Fair enough for the first two. "Leaves That Are Green," however, has SOME sort of electric musical instrument on the recording on Sounds of Silence, especially in the opening lead-in. Absecon 59 (talk) 05:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
    • The section 'First breakup' claims that the electrified 'Sounds of Silence' song was released as a single with "We've Got a Groovy Thing Goin'" as a b-side.

This sounds problematic at best. 'We've got a groovy thing' is a song the features electric guitars etc. When was that electrified? And on which recording was based? As far as I know, S&G did not record an acoustic version of the song prior to 1966, upon which the 'electrified' version could be based.

So, either 'We've got a groovy...' isn't the single's b-side, or either, the single was not released until Simon returned from Europe and recorded additional electric material with Garfunkel.

      • The box set Old Friends (1997) mentions its recording date as 5 April 1965, before the single was released in September 1965 (Columbia 4-43396). The version on the single is a mono mix of the same track that appeared in mono and stereo forms on Sounds of Silence. Simon apparently was back and forth between the USA and Europe in 1965, though he seems to have spent most of the year in the UK. Absecon 59 (talk) 05:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
    • Finally, the section 'Second breakup' claims that:

'The LP was originally supposed to feature twelve tracks, but a disagreement over the twelfth track ensued. Simon refused to record a Bach chorale track favored by Garfunkel. Garfunkel refused to record a song Simon had written called "Cuba Si, Nixon No". No middle ground was reached, so the album was released with only eleven songs.'

There is no reference for that claim. If we consider that S&G actually played 'Cuba si, Nixon no' at the June 1972 benefit concert at Madison Square Garden (bootleg recordings exist and verify that), then the claim that Garfunkel objected to the subject matter of the song is dubious.

      • I believe that Patrick Humphries' 1989 book, Paul Simon: Still Crazy After All These Years claims this, though I'm unsure of the exact page citations. Absecon 59 (talk) 05:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Could someone please clarify these points? If this is not possible, then I suggest their deletion for the sake of accuracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.5.241.167 (talk) 00:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 06:28, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:BridgeWater.jpg

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)