Talk:SAVAK

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[edit] Agree!

I agree with my two brothers (if not by the same person) that wrote the same thing below. If SAVAK was busy to torture everyone, kill, rape, destroy etc. Who kept Iran safe from Russia and the arab countries surronded? And USA etc. How did the revolution happen if they were busy doing that all the time? I am changing the article! // RUX

[edit] brutality

SAVAK was not as brutal as everybody thinks; if it was so violent as everybody suggests how could the revolution happen? wouldnt they kill those in favour of Khomeini? SAVAK certainly killed and tortured people but doesent all secret services in major countries practise illegal things (as bad as it is) it happens and SAVAK was not an Outstanding force of brutality in this morally corrupt world.

[edit] Bonyad-e Shahid

Since there is very little evidence to show that SAVAK is directly responsible for more than two thousand deaths, I edited out the reference for 20,000 murders. Refer to Mr. Emaddedin Baghi's article in - چهار‌شنبه ۸ مرداد ۱۳۸۲ in Iran News website. His reference is the records kept by the Foundation for the Martyrs (Bonyad-e Shahid).

[edit] violence

Brutality is a topic that many people have miscontrued ideas about. Brutality and repression doesn't necessarily equate into a win. In today's world with emphasis by the international community on human rights, brutality plays against the force or entity that imposes it. It could effect a counterinsurgent's government's wallet from a lack of financial support like in Nicaragua and the Carter administration's pull of US funds to Somoza government because of human rights abuses. The Japanese imposed brutality in its kill everything policy in China and lost miserably. More and more af revolutions, low-intensity conflicts, insurgencies, etc. have been decided by the "hearts and minds" aspect of war. Now governments and counterinsurgency doctrines in the world are changing to accomodate this. So, Savak's brutality is counter to its ability to hold power. Imagine a government that has alienated the majority of the population in this country. The question is, how many is the government willing to kill to impose order? And no, not all secret service , well in this case, secret police force are as repressive as Savak. Savak's jpb was not to protect the president but to infilitrate and neutralize suspected enemy without trial or formal charge.

[edit] additons

CIA analyst Jesse Leaf stated that senior agency [CIA] officials trained Savak in tactics used by World War II Nazis. Although, no Americans participated in tortures, they were present. The Shah responded in Le monde in an interview to international condemnation of Savak's human right's abuses: "Why should we not employ the same methods as you Europeans? We have learned sophisticated methods of torture from you. You use psychological methods to extract the truth: we do the same." Alfred McCoy "A quesion of torture: CIA interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror" pg. 74. McCoy does a convincing job showing that the US has spread the teaching of torture from Asia, Latin America, and the Middle East. My only complaint is that he neglects the African theater :0 130.127.74.248 01:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)Collective Conscious

[edit] VIVAK

I don't understand this:

The latter is also referred to as VEVAK, Vezarat-e Ettela'at va Amniat-e Keshvar, though Iranians and the Iranian press never employ this term, using instead the official Ministry title.

Clearly this is a Persian word: if Iranians don't use it, who does? And what does it mean? Presumably the Ettela'at va Amniat-e Keshvar bit means "Intelligence and National Security", though I don't know what Vezarat-e means. --Saforrest 19:21, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Post-Revolution

I have removed this phrase: However, since Iran has the world's seventh worst press freedom [1], there is no reliable allegation that the organization currently practices detention and torture on the same massive scale as SAVAK.

This statement is not substantiated. It infers that the current organization does practice dentention and torture on the same level as SAVAK, we simply don't hear about it. Regardless of what types of press freedoms exist - it would have to be shown that we do not know of the activity of this organization as a result of limited press freedoms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Criminoboy (talk • contribs) 05:28, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Try reading Tortured Confessions --BoogaLouie (talk) 23:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Taleghani eylids being removed ?

From the article:
According to Polish author Ryszard Kapuściński, SAVAK was responsible for

  • Ayatollah Saidi, death by torture (burning on a large griddle)
  • Ayatollah Mahmoud Taleghani's death after the revolution in September 1979 due to complications of removal of eyelids while being forced to watch the rape of his daughter
  • Execution of Khosrow Golsorkhi and his friend Keramat Daneshian (or Denachian)
  • Banning of Shakespeare and Molière
  • Censorship of press, books and films.[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by BoogaLouie (talk • contribs) 23:29, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


How reliable is this? I have read quite a few books on the Islamic Revolution. Nobody ever talked about Taleghani eylids being removed --BoogaLouie (talk) 23:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)