Talk:Saint Piran's Flag

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Heraldry and Vexillology Portal Saint Piran's Flag is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. (FAQ).

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cornwall, an attempt to improve and expand Wikipedia coverage of Cornwall and all things Cornish. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project member page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.	Cornwall Portal
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale.
See drop-down box for suggested article edit guidelines: Shortcut: WP:Cornwall Articles are written using a standard set of headings (see suggestions for article structure here). This is to maintain consistency between Cornwall articles and to improve the quality of entries through a constant style of writing. These headings are, however, plastic and in a state of flux and although we welcome suggestions or improvements, we would appreciate discussion before any major changes to the layout yourself. Be bold - if you know something about Cornwall then put it in! We value your contributions and don't be afraid if your spelling isn't great as there are plenty of spelling and grammar experts on clean-up duty! At WikiProject Cornwall we subscribe to the policies laid down by Wikipedia - particularly civility and consensus building. We are aware that the wording on Cornish entries can sometimes be a contentious topic, especially those concerning geography. You don't have to agree with everything but there is no excuse for rudeness and these things are best solved through consensus building and compromise. For more information see WP:CornwallGuideline. These pages are not platforms for political discussion. Issues relating to Cornish politics should be restricted to those pages that directly deal with these issues (such as Constitutional status of Cornwall, Cornish self-government movement, etc) and should not overflow into other articles. Most of all have fun editing - that's the reason we all do this, right?!

looks quite nice this page now doesn't it! Well done to whoevers put the references and pics up here! 86.136.230.235

The earliest written evidence of this flag was recorded by Davies Gilbert in his 1838 work: 'The Parochial History of Cornwall', Vol III, p. 332.

There are claims that the design dates from prior to c1188 when the flag was used in the Crusades [1] and was seen in 1415 at the Battle of Agincourt [2].

This makes no sense whatsoever. Also neither of the linked referrences carry any further information to support this claim. This highly speculative, unproven, and should be removed.

I removed the quote There are claims that the design dates from prior to c1188 when the flag was used in the Crusades [1] and was seen in 1415 at the Battle of Agincourt [2].'' as there is no proof of this, except for an unsubstantiated referrence to it haveing beeen "In the Encylopedia Brittanica". There is no justification for this remaining, the way it is phrased is highly POV, and the referrences linked to provide NO supportive information whatsoever.

Why has it been reposted? Serpren 05:53, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Yet again, this speculative and unsupported, even unsupported in the links, nonsense about St Piran's flag being seen at the crusades, has been reposted. Why? 08:36, 28 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Serpren (talk Serpren (talk) 12:47, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I've removed it yet again! Unless someone can come up with EVIDENCE that the Encylopedia Brittanica EVER stated that the Cornish flag was seen at Agincourt etc, I will continue to remove it.Serpren (talk) 12:47, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

'the banner of cornwall' appears im bold here, I'm not sure if I did this accidently when editing or if it was like this already? Dunno if it matters to much. (WM) 131.111.8.97

I've unbolded it now. Maybe someone did it because it contains sort-of the title of the article? Not usual to bold that outside the first sentence though. Skittle 20:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

the phrase 'The flags are the exact reverse of each other. But that black cross was not the flag of the Duchy of Brittany.' is a bit confusing? infact I dont have a clue what it means! i presume editing has cut out something, whats the black cross refered to here, the ensign i presume? 131.111.8.104

Contents 1 Animation 2 national 3 Unregistered aol user & Consensus 4 Anonymous editing 5 Fair use rationale for Image:Ginst.jpg 6 Image copyright problem with Image:Cpf.jpg

[edit] Animation

Why do we have a little animated St Piran's flag here? What does it add? Skittle 19:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

>>I added the animated flag, I thought it would add a little something to the article. If you want it removed then that is fine by me. Ben 21:10, 3 August 2006 UTC

If it's alright with people here (I'll wait until tomorrow), I'll remove the animation. It isn't a bad animation, it just feels to me that it distracts the reader's eyes from the article without adding information. Skittle 22:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] national

Rather POV, the lead-in descibes the flag as a national flag and then later on the text says that it is no longer considered to be a nationalist emblem and flying it does not necessarily mean support for nationalist cause. I have, therefore, removed the reference to 'national'. Conrwall is a nation in the opinion of Celtic nationalists, it does not have that status in UK law.GordyB17:30, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Prior to 1955 when it was deannexed from England Wales had no status with the United Kingdom, with the term England before being taken in law to refer to Wales also - does that mean that the Welsh nation did not exist before that point? I think not!Mammal4 17:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Prior to 1955, there was no point referring to the Dragon flag as a national flag because it had no such status. The union jack is a national flag because the UK is a sovereign independent country, the flags of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are arguably so since the UK government defines those territories as countries.

Celtic nationalists might see the flag as a national flag but that their point of view, it has no basis in objective fact. I am reverting. If you want to discuss how nationalists see the flag that is fine but you cannot say that a flag is a national flag when it has no such status and such a claim is controversial to say the least.GordyB 22:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

National flags are not State flags - There are no recognised "National" flags in the UK just the Union Jack and various Royal Standards (St Georges Cross, St Andrews Cross etc abolished as state flags by the Acts of Union etc) - By the way I am not a certified nut job Nationalist - Keep the tone a little calmer and try not to wind up the users who have worked hard to get these articles up to scratch. Statements like "I am reverting" without attempt to compromise suggest either greater knowledge or arrogance Reedgunner 13:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The tone is quite calm, if you read what I said I did suggest a compromise. I would remind you that there is no article ownership in Wikipedia.

I also said that the flags of England, Scotland etc are arguably national flags, you seem to have missed one key word.GordyB 14:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello Gordy - Didn't suggest that you were not calm - just keep it calm thats all - I have had experience to these debates before and it ends up with one of the extremist wikinutters (from either side) throwing verbal abuse around. As you quite rightly say there are now article owners on wikipedia - I was suggesting that when making edits you try and breed some kind of consensus - Which looking at you debate on Cornwall talk page is where you are headed. I also would like to add it seems you place a high value on "Englishness" nothing wrong with that of course, but I personally place value in my Britishness, Europeaness and Cornishness, both I think are points of view that may cloud opinions. Anyway - Please don't roam the Cornwall wiki project articles deleting any reference to the Cornish as "National" minority as you seem to be threatening, I agree lets find a middle ground and I for one have no intention of making alterations to England Articles to reflect my opinion that England is a former State now part of the UK or anything else because I can't be bothered. Reedgunner 15:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

England is a former state and part of the UK, I don't have a problem with that. IMO it is a nation but I don't get all upset because somebody might disagree with that. I don't go around deleting references to Cornish nationalism but a lot of the Cornish articles could do with a NPOV make-over if not by me then by somebody. Cornish nationalism exists but some articles would lead you to believe that this was the dominant political movement in Cornwall.GordyB 15:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed!! - Please view my post on the Cornwall Talk page - Cornish devolution is a big issue in Cornwall but the predominant polictical support is not for Mebyon Kernow (a few councillors ONE OF THEM ME!!!), The cornish Nationalist party or the Cornish Stannary Parliament - you are quite right the articles do need a POV make over and for the those who are about to get upset about my post the facts are the facts until you change them - I suggest people vote for change instead of presenting them as truths. Anyway maybe we could talk about a serious POV review soon - I am ignoring wikipedia for a few days because I am fed up some of the hijacking of Cornwall articles by a few bearded men in Camborne (no offense intended) Reedgunner 15:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unregistered aol user & Consensus

There is a revert spat going with this article by an unregistered aol user whos IP always starts with 172. I have changed the wording on 2 occasions back to reflect a position that all can agree on but he or she seems fixed on winding up people to reflect his or her POV. If you are said user have the strength to register - join the debate - and become part of the wikipedia community..... Abusive comments about edits such as "nonsense" does not help build consensus and may lead some to believe that you are an "internet coward"... I however could not possibly comment. I notice that the 172 ips (every time you log on to AOL I believe your IP changes , the first 3 numbers are often 172) have been a little active on all the Cornwall articles lately and this is not an isolated example Reedgunner 16:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the St Pirran's flag is not actually the flag of the county of Cornwall anyway - I don't think it has been adopted by the county council in any official sense therefore these edits are actually incorrect. St Pirran's cross is only the flag of Cornwall in the historical sense of the term (i.e as a nation, or a duchy within the Kingdom of England)Mammal4 09:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

GOOD POINT!!!! Reedgunner 09:14, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anonymous editing

Please do not attack edits purely because they were made logged in. I would refer you to Wikipedia:Welcome anonymous editing and WP:AGF. If you have a problem with an edit, please specify it, and avoid the ad hominem attacks.217.134.67.191 11:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

User 217.134.67.191 quotes an essay not wikipedia policy, I cannot assume good faith from an editor who describes my edit as "nonsense". I was trying to build consensus.Reedgunner 18:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Ginst.jpg

Image:Ginst.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:37, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Cpf.jpg

The image Image:Cpf.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --04:50, 20 May 2008 (UTC)