Talk:Royal Navy

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[edit] Revamp

comment moved from talk archive Woodym555 (talk) 23:17, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I think, personally - as someone intending to join the RN, and therefore a keen learner on the RN, that the entire article and its associated pages (Senior Officers etc) could do with a major revamp: more images (if we can get a hold of them!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.118.214 (talk • contribs) 23:02, 17 November 2007

I don't think this article could cope with anymore images. This is not an image gallery. There are enough images on commons if you want them. link. This page is not the place to advertise the Navy, it is the place to have an encyclopedia article on the Royal Navy. If you want to research the Royal Navy, then its website would be the best place to start. If you are offering to help update all the articles, then by all means be bold and fix them! ;) Remember to follow the WP:MOS though... Woodym555 (talk) 23:17, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Landing Craft of the royal Navy

hi there i was wondering if there was any room on this article for mentioning the types and numbers of landing craft that are currently in service with the royal navy similar to the french navy article. I have the information with me at present taken from the royal navy hand book (2003) which is the most up to date source of information i have found.

the types of landing craft Utility (LCU)in service are:

LCU MK 10 - number of vessels 10 (Pennent numbers 1001-1010) entered service 1999.

LCU Mk 9 - Number of vessels 3 (Pennent numbers 701, 705, 709) entered service 1960-1970 (most have left service with hms fearless and intrepid).

The types of Landing Craft Vehicles and personnel (LCVP)in service are:

Griffon 2000 TDX(m)hovercraft- Number of vessels 4 (Pennent numbers 21-24) entered service 1993.

LCVP MK4 -Number of vessels 19 (Pennent numbers 8031,8401,8403-8,8410-20,8621,8622)entered service 1986 (others of the same type are operated by the british army and serve in the falkland islands.)

LCVP MK5 - Number of vessels 23 (Pennent numbers 9473, 9673-9676, 9707,9708,plus 16) first 7 entered service 1999 a further 16 ordered in 2001 and entered service 2002-2003.

i would edit the article myself but i firstly do not have the skill currently and also do not wish to tread on anyones toes.

regards kieran Locke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.165.225.23 (talk) 13:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Second largest navy?

"The Royal Navy is the second-largest navy in the world in terms of the combined displacement of its fleet after the U.S. Navy." I think this information is not valid. I have collected some information and made calculations by reffering to links in wikipedia itself:

Royal Navy:

  • 2x Invincible class CV(20700 tons)
  • 9x Type 42 DDG (5350 tons, I have taken all as batch 3 having max displacement)
  • 13x Type 23 FFG (4200 tons)
  • 11x Type 22 FFG (4900 tons, again I have taken all as batch 3 having max displacement)
  • 1x Ocean LPH(21578 tons)
  • 2x Albion LPD(21500 tons)

This makes 262628 tons for major surface ships.

Now take Russian Navy

  • 1x Admiral Kuznetsov CVG(67000 tons)
  • 2x Kirov BCGN(28000 tons)
  • 1x Kara CG(9900 tons)
  • 3x Slava CG(11490 tons)
  • 10x Sovremenny DDG (7940 tons)
  • 8x Udaloy DDG (7900 tons)
  • 32x Krivak FFG (3575 tons)*
  • 1x Neustrashimny FFG(4400 tons)
  • 1x Tartarstan FFG(1940 tons)

This makes 430710 tons for major surface ships. (I excluded landing ships of Russian Navy while I included them in Royal Navy list).

I may have made mistakes in active units(thats why I excluded landing ships), but few ships are negligable becouse difference is nearly 200000 tons.

In wikipedia the active number of Krivaks is not written, even if I assume no krivaks are in active duty(which is impossible) total fleet displacement becomes 316310 tons, still considerably larger than Royal Navy.

For submarines the situation gets worse, Royal navy has 4 SSBN with 15680 tons displacement and 9 SSNs, Russian navy has 15 SSBNs, with displacements between 18200 tons and 33800 tons. If you noticed total displacement of Russian SSBNs are almost three times bigger than entire submarine fleet of the Royal navy(288600 tons Russian SSBNs alone vs 108920 Royal Navy SSBNs+ SSNs). Have to mention Russian Navy has 7x SSGN (18300 tons) and ~20 SSN and ~16 SS.

I have taken maximum displacements for ships, and dived displacements for submarines. I have taken active ships only. I have excluded ships which are laid up, in reserve, in refit or under construction.

If reserves are taken into account, Russian Navy probably displaces greater than the sum of entire Navies of the Europe.

I have made this calculations for Russia only becouse Russian Navy doubles Royal Navy in numbers and I was almost certain it would have greater combined displacement, proving "second largest navy" statement wrong. China and French navies are also very large, same calculations should also be made to determine the place of the Royal navy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.213.65.84 (talk) 22:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

At some point the statement got changed from saying second-largest in NATO, which is what the document noted after the statement actually says, so second-largest in the world. I've reworded. David Underdown (talk) 09:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

You have missed in your calculations the RFA fleet which not only holds all of the support ships but also some of our amphibious assets (a number of these ships are above 20000 tonnes)and the survey and minesweepers. when measureing gross tonnage you must include every ship in commision. also the status and numbers of active russian ships is still in question. the kirov aviation cruisers are no longer in service ( one is being rebuilt for the indian navy.) regards kieran locke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.165.225.23 (talk) 13:37, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Kirov class is not an aviation cruiser, I think you are talking about Kiev class whose last unit is being rebuilt. Two Kirovs are still active, two in reserve, if you like to, I can write google earth coordinates for all four units. For Russian Navy, I listed ships only if its actually known to be active. Add suspicious ones, these numbers will increase by 50%. Add reserves, these numbers will be doubled if not tripled. For support ships I haven't included for Russian navy either. However its logical to assume a navy with more warships would likely to have more support ships. Before support ships, I would consider adding corvettes and patrol boats, Russians outnumber in any case. The situation gets even worse for submarines. For amphibious ships, I have included LPH and LPDs in the Royal Navy which are actually big (as much as >20000 tons). However I didn't include smaller ones. I also didn't include any russian amphibious ships, including Ivan Rogov(>14000 tons). I think these are unnecessary and these numbers are enough to support my opinion. Note that I havent said fleet tonnage, I wrote "major surface units"

[edit] POV Statement?

The article says "However around this time, the Imperial Japanese Navy and the United States Navy began to surpass the Royal Navy in power."

Is this not something of a point of view? The three navys never directly faced each other in all their might. So while the Imperial Japanese Navy may have been locally superior in the Pacific theatre, the fact is that the Royal Navy was primarily concerned with the battle of the Atlantic and the war in the Mediterranean. Both of these theaters were dramatically different from the Pacific theatre, where the US and Japanese navys were most heavily engaged.

My point being that it is not possible to objectively state that the Royal Navy was inferior, there being no empirical evidence of such.

I therefore think the article should be modified to reflect this

Jonewer (talk) 19:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the IJN overtaking the RN seems to be very much a point of view without substantive evidence.

The only obvious area of IJN ship superiority over the RN in 1941 was in carriers, but the RN had a major carrier-building programme in place at that time. Post-1941 comparisons are complicated by both navies' subsequent losses.

The IJN was certainly superior to the RN in terms of overall naval aviation, because Japanese aircraft types were far better - the RN lost control of naval aviation in 1918 and, by the time that organic air was restored in 1939, aircraft development had suffered from severe neglect. In 1941, British naval aircraft were far outclassed by Japanese types. Whether this made the IJN a match for the RN as a whole has to be simply a point of view.--Vvmodel (talk) 15:31, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm not so sure about your first statement but agree totally with the second. IIRC, the RN had 7 aircraft carriers at the outbreak of war and five more building - I dont know the exact numbers but I dont think there a massive difference in numbers there. However the IJN and USN had aircraft that utterly outclassed the RN aircraft. Therefore although RN carriers were numerous and and often very modern and well designed - this didnt really matter when the aircraft were pants.

I think though its important to recognize that WWII naval warfare wasnt just about large fleet carrier actions. Convoys and submarine warfare dominated in the Atlantic and Mediteranean - and played a significant role in the pacific too, although this is sometimes overshadowed by the glamour of fleet actions. The IJN's signal failure to develop counter-submarine warfare contrasting nicely with the RN's (and RCN's)very succesful campaign to keep supplied and island homeland.

Jonewer (talk) 21:51, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] HMS Sutlej??

I don't mean HMS Sutlej (1899) but the earlier one, present in the Pacific Northwest in the 1850s and 1860s. I'd like to start it but don't know its date of building; unless it was the first one by that name - ?? - in which case I gather it wouldn't need a date disambig. Please see this discussion for more.Skookum1 (talk) 19:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Would this link be a help http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/converted_frigates.htm It has the following information HMS Sutlej (launched?) 17th April 1855 Scrapped 1869 Dabbler (talk) 19:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)