Talk:Rock Springs Massacre/Archive 2

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[edit] Nomination for Featured Articles peer review

I hearby nominate this article for a peer-review at WP:FAC. I understand that User:IvoShandor feels the article has a few minor issues. I would be happy to help fix whatever they might be. In my opinion this article has it all. Ok! 18:34, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Passed

I have reviewed the article and believe it meets all points at WP:WIAGA. I was careful to pay particular attention to all sentances to look for pov, especially in regards to previous discussions on the talk page. I was unable to find either any information that seemed non-neutral or any claims/assertions that were not supported by a relevant reference. Everything else with the article, images, image captions, coverage of the topic, well written, stable etc all apply. I do however have a few recommedations for improvement especially as I feel that this article would do well to be nominated for FA status.

My biggest suggestion for improvement is to shorten some elements of the article. There is a considerable section for example both on the background to the massacre and the aftermath - post massacre violence section. Although interesting I think the entire post massacre section could be incorporated into one or two summarising paragraphs rather than the long section it is now. This article is about the massacre and although it is important to set both the context of events and the immediate aftermath it does seem that the article is almost a general appraisal of anti-chinese relations and the massacre rather than just the massacre alone. I feel that this over coverage does not affect the article from being GA status but rather that it would prevent it from reaching a future status of FA. Furthermore the information contained in the lead section, assertions etc are referenced and elaborated in the main article but perhaps it might do well to include a few of the references from the main article to support the lead section? Anyway great work and well done to all who contributed to improve.LordHarris 13:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I have made some tweaks in this area in preparation for some expansion as well as some source diversification. Please do take a look. I can't figure where to trim the Wyoming immigrants section, I cut it some, but maybe you could help me out with some tips, if it needs to be trimmed at all. IvoShandor 14:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Well the recent edits have made it a lot more concise, at least in regards to post violence e.g. the new article at Washington. I dont see the need to trim it any further and the Wymoning section as it stands is a good precursor to understanding the context for the massacre. Good work. LordHarris 00:33, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion/Sources

I will be working on improving this article past GA status now. I am just going to make some important notes below, for my, or anyone else's use. IvoShandor 15:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible sources

  • Sources incorporated into the text and footnoted, sent to the references section or listed in further reading are marked with {{done}}.

I haven't included all sources added since GA here, just FYI. IvoShandor 13:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion

  • Y Done Diversify the sources for the actual description of the riot, the NRHP form seems pretty good.
  • One more would be nice, have added NRHP form. IvoShandor 16:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Have several now, should be suffcient. Some of the details, I have only found in the Chinese account so far, which makes sense because they are pretty specific. IvoShandor 07:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
  • What would be really nice is an account from white miners; I highly doubt such a thing exists. IvoShandor 21:55, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
  • As a note, I have yet to read Craig Sorti's book, it may provide further information. IvoShandor 21:57, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Verification on some of the connections wouldn't hurt, the book above seems to be just that.
  • The History of Seattle book called the massacre the beginning of the lawless period of anti-Chinese sentiment in the Puget Sound area. IvoShandor 07:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Use NRHP form to expand prior activity in Rock Springs section.
  • Added what info was in the National Register form. IvoShandor 16:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Expanded further and changed to "Causation," see below. IvoShandor 07:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Consider a possible causes section. IvoShandor 15:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done - needs expansion Feels like something else is missing, a significance or further context section, I know the riot affected treaty negotiations between the U.S. and China b/c of delayed victim's compensation. I require further verification for this, but I think it merits a section. IvoShandor 16:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Have added a bit, more detail on the treaty aspect would be nice. IvoShandor 07:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
  • The treaty, while connected, is three years post-Rock Springs Massacre. I have removed the reference as the treaty negotiations were only loosely connected to the riot. Instead I have expanded upon the core diplomatic problem, victims compensation. Still need to expand on Cleveland and Warren and the KOL, politically after the riot. IvoShandor 10:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Areas where it could be expanded: treaty detail, F.E. Warren, Cleveland. Was there any relation to Warren's dismissal the next year? It seems not from what I have read but more research may reveal otherwise. IvoShandor 07:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Considering moving this section to the end and retitling (Political context or something). It may serve as a better conclusion. Adding that issue to the list below from the GA review. Any thoughts? IvoShandor 10:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done The lead will need to be rewritten/added to after all is said and done. IvoShandor 16:40, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done It is becoming clearer that the Knights of Labor were the driving force behind this event.
  • Have included several pieces of info regarding the Knights, may merit a more concise summary, either as an expanded graf in the causation section or its own subsection somewhere. This also helps put Powderly's reaction into context. IvoShandor 07:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
  • This will be worked on in my user space. I will post it to the article when I have something significant.
  • This will be included as part of the causation section, research has shown that the racial factors were more important anyway. IvoShandor 10:57, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Based upon some of the sources used here and their assertions about Storti's thesis, I think that the current mention of the Knights of Labor, sporadically and not in its own section or paragraph, is appropriate and correct. IvoShandor 19:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Added this stuff to this list well after it was completed, just here for your information. Expand aftermath to include military deployments.
  • Y Done Add information to causes section on race predjudice. IvoShandor 13:20, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Working on this right now, in user space, probably won't be ready til tomorrow sometime. I am pretty busy working until Sunday morning, we'll see, maybe this afternoon. IvoShandor 13:20, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

IvoShandor 21:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC) IvoShandor 12:33, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other

  • Y Done - mostly Images, may need to enlist some help here.
  • Or not. I have added several free use images, portraits of Terence Powderly and Grover Cleveland to the Reaction section. Two images, one of Gov. Frances E Warren and the other of federal troops in Rock Springs in 1885, to the immediate aftermath section. I added an 1885 editorial cartoon from harper's weekly to the riot section, though I think it satirizes the diplomatic gaffe that the riot led to and would be better suited for that section once it evolves. Could still use something to illustrate the actual riot with. IvoShandor 17:30, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I removed and speedied that cartoon, I am unable to locate the NARA source to confirm its status. IvoShandor 17:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Another peer review in order after this?
  • N Not done Have just foregone the peer review process, which is rather weak these days anyway, in lieu of direct requests with a few editors, including those who have helped with this page in some way. IvoShandor 17:28, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
  • N Not done Copy edit.
  • Copyeditors: Please sign below, add section(s) edited, or just note the whole article if that is the case.
  • IvoShandor 16:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC): I am making little changes here and there, I will go over it thoroughly when my expansion is completed.
  • N Not done Red links - I think there are five. I have put in a request for assistance from WikiProject Wyoming as they are mostly within the scope of that project. IvoShandor 13:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

This list will quite likely change with time. I curse the Hagermanbot. IvoShandor 15:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA review items

  • Y Done Over coverage - LordHarris has acknowledged, above, that the outstanding points about condensing the article, made on the passing GA review, have been suffciently addressed. IvoShandor 09:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done - Unless concerns are raised (Cites can always be added easily) Which leaves the lead, my understanding is only extraordinary claims need be referenced in the lead if the are everything is referenced in the article. We will have to see what may warrant citation in the lead after it is rewritten pending further work. IvoShandor 09:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Better way to conclude the article? IvoShandor 10:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quick suggestions

Here's a couple of quick structural things at a glance, I won't get around to reading it until tomorrow:

    • Y Done Section titles should not repeat the title of the article (WP:MSH), could just be Massacre.
    • Y Done There's should be some kind of linking to the monetary unit when the mention of money first appears ($150,000 --> $150,000 or US$150,000.
    • Y Done It looks slightly more aesthetic when several refs appear together to have them in numerical order.
  • Added a lot, will go back and fix this, it's jacked up all over. IvoShandor 12:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Have gone back and fixed this, done again. IvoShandor 12:54, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Y Done Full dates are wikilinked correctly however, this section of WP:DATE states that months and days appearing together should be linked too; September 15 and September 26 etc. Quadzilla99 12:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I think I got all of these. IvoShandor 12:54, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • All suggestions incorporated. IvoShandor 12:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "consequences" as concluding section

Y Done

Some of the more lasting consequences could be gathered into a concluding section, such as :

In U.S. domestic politics the perceived slow reaction by Cleveland may have contributed to the Republican victory in the 1888 election that followed. There is no proof that the Knights of Labor were behind the massacre at Rock Springs but the group's strong anti-Chinese position was weakened as a result of the riot.

Moreover, a brief bit of modern-day commentary could be included in that section as well (?)

Good work! Ling.Nut 13:00, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

  • I have some ideas for this already based on some of the reading I have done, I will set something up in user space and link it here later. IvoShandor 13:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Thanks btw, for the kudos and the comments. IvoShandor 13:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I think one of my sources actually has the full text of the letter . . . the quote should be footnoted, and have some context provided, IMO. IvoShandor 06:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

It is footnoted. As for wider context, I haven't read anything else on the topic. You're on your own there, kiddo. :-) Ling.Nut 10:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Roger that, I will add something about the letter. I am working on some stuff in my user space, see User:IvoShandor/Rock Springs Massacre work page, some of it is not relevant any longer. IvoShandor 10:55, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

This quote: Chinese immigrants... segregate themselves from the rest of the residents and citizens of the United States and... refuse to mingle with the mass of population... As a consequence, race prejudice has been more excited against them, notably among aliens of other nationalities...? It isn't footnoted from where I am looking. IvoShandor 12:40, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

We're talking around each other. The relevant footnote is #22, immediately following the colon that immediately precedes the blockquote. :-) If you're saying you want it after the quote itself, then it shall be so. Will do that now. :-) Ling.Nut 12:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes we are. I saw the note when I went in to make some tweaks, moved it myself, you may not realize this but I have seen this page way too much. ; ) IvoShandor 12:55, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
So I didn't. IvoShandor 12:56, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I know how you feel; I feel the same way about other articles. ;-) Anyhow, the relevant note is #22. Please put it anywhere you think it seems best. :-) Ling.Nut 13:26, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
What I am writing in my user space has to end up in the causation section, any ideas for "modern day commentary"? I am not sure how this article should conclude, is it okay as is? IvoShandor 13:18, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nice article

  • Y Done I enjoyed reading this article. One point - the geographical co-ords at top right are usually seen on articles about a geographical location, not on historical articles about an event. If the c-ords refer to Rock Springs, put the co-ords template in the article somewhere and say this explicitly, otherwise it is just confusing. At the moment, the co-ords point to a car park between Bridger Ave and Elias Ave in Rock Springs. Carcharoth 13:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • N Not done Also, are there any memorials in present-day Rock Springs to this massacre? If there is any mention of it, or a verifiable present-day location (are the mines still there?), then that should be mentioned. Carcharoth 13:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I do have some information about the location of the mines and Chinatown circa 1885, where would this be best suited as an addition? IvoShandor 13:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • If it will help those in the area orientate themselves, yes. I think you mentioned a river. Is that still there? Carcharoth 13:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Bitter Creek is an intermittent stream, but I am sure it's still there, I will check with the friendly USGS and get back to ya. IvoShandor 14:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Also, your first link to Wyoming is to the article on the state (incorporated in 1890), rather than your later link to Wyoming Territory. Your other links to Utah and Washington territories seem to be OK, but it might be worth checking through for this sort of thing. Also, you seem to switch between saying "Wyoming" and "Wyoming Territory" in the article - either say Territory once and then Wyoming thereafter, or consistently say "Territory" the whole time. Not sure how to handle the links to modern towns and cities whose articles are at "XYZ, Wyoming". Carcharoth 13:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Roger that, will look for that. As for modern day towns I think ideally, if the article on the city of Rock Springs were to become featured it would cover the town's history through the territorial days too. IvoShandor 13:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I just went with Wyoming on second reference and after, checked the others, they were all correct except for the link to Montana, it now points at the territory. IvoShandor 13:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Oh, and thanks for the compliments and the helpful commentary btw. : ) I am glad you enjoyed reading the article. IvoShandor 13:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • No problem. I enjoy this sort of gentle collaboration. I make suggestions, but others do all the work! :-) Carcharoth 13:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done I see that Union Pacific Coal Company is a red-link. You could use this website to start a stub. I think that website is saying that it wasn't called that name until 1890, so you might need to change that, unless you sources are more reliable. Carcharoth 13:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I have seen "company" and "department." This is one where I would like to employ the gentle collaboration, a request for some of the Wyoming project members to help with the red links has been made. There are five I think. IvoShandor 14:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done I added another massacre to the see also. If that gets a bit long, create a category to cover US-Chinese racial tensions in this time period. It seems we have a fair number of articles on the subject. Carcharoth 13:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • If it warrants it we should just go ahead and do that now, I created this plus the articles linked from the Washington article and Oregon article (Chinese Massacre Cove). I saw the link you added, coolio, I wasn't sure if there was an article for that one, I didn't really look though. IvoShandor 14:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

there is, I say with deep regret, a very large amount of info on Anti-Chinese Violence in North America. Should this be a cat, or should there be an umbrella article with links to individual incidents? Ling.Nut 14:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Both. That way the main article can provide a general overview with links to main articles throughout, or it can be linked from the individual articles, whichever is easier. Categories are just useful in their own right, this one would be anyway. IvoShandor 14:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Cat name should be a small 'v'. Check other categories to get a name that is consistent with those. Have a look at Category:Racism. That should show how this has been tackled elsewhere. Most concern modern racism, though historical racism might be in some of the slavery categories. You are already aware of Category:Racially motivated violence in the United States - browse around from there and see what you find. Carcharoth 14:14, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Also: Category:History of immigration to the United States. Carcharoth 14:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Memorials

Per comments above from Carcharoth, so far I have been able to find nothing on any memorials. No listings on the National Register of Historic Places exist related to the Massacre. There was once some remaining buildings from Camp Pilot Butte that comprised a historic district but they are no longer extant and don't appear on the National Register any longer. I checked the closest National Forests and Recreation ares sites for anything as well as Rock Springs city website. Nothing came up. There is, however, a Historical Museum and society in Rock Springs, I will shoot them an email and see if they may be able to point me in the right direction about a memorial and somewhere published to verify it. IvoShandor 14:14, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Ask them if the mine is still open, and when it closed. Carcharoth 14:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Will do. IvoShandor 14:21, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay, so I lied. They don't have an email address posted. I am just going to email the mayor of Rock Springs, surely he will have their email address, I could just call them I suppose but taking notes about potential sources and publications they point me toward is hard over the phone. IvoShandor 06:56, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
It must be the dark ages out there ; ) The mayor doesn't have an email posted, none of the council members do! I will see what I can track down, may take a few days though. IvoShandor

(undent) I sent an email to the Rock Springs Chamber of Commerce because I found an email address, chambers are usually pretty well connected so they should be able to at least point me toward someone who would know. IvoShandor 18:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A new paragraph

I wrote a new paragraph, take a look at it here. Any input on where to put it in the article? IvoShandor 19:31, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I added it to Causation. IvoShandor 13:12, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Open questions - To-do updated

This is basically an updated list, consolidating comments from above as well as anything I originally listed as outstanding when I started working on this post-GA. IvoShandor 13:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Open questions

  • Y Done Conclusion? See below.
  • Y Done Cleveland and his 1888 loss - I can only find one mention of the 1888 election being influenced by the massacre, none of the scholarly material I have read mentions this influence at all. I am thinking about removing the sentence. Thoughts?
  • Y Done Warren? See below.
  • Anything glaring?
  • Style problems?
  • Added en dashes where appropriate based upon WP:DASH. IvoShandor 16:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Should there be a non breaking space between only measurements and numbers or should something like 52 miners have a non breaking space as well?
  • Links: Anything irrelevant linked or anything relevant that is not linked? Look for any unlinked full dates or any linked months/years, especially in the footnotes. IvoShandor 15:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Are there any individual years that provide enough context to be wikilinked (I am a bad judge of this ambiguous guideline)? IvoShandor 16:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Are the refs formatted well enough, there may be a couple of minor consistency errors. Anything missing?
  • Y Done - Unless more concerns are raised Lead length?

[edit] To-do

  • None of the academic papers I have read seem to mention Warren's dismissal and the Rock Springs Massacre together, I will need to consult some other sources on this because some web sources (which I would consider to be reliable) have implied that Warren's dismissal/resignation was affected by a scandal which may or may not have included his involvement with the Union Pacific Railroad Company and thus the events surrounding Rock Springs. Hmm. I wouldn't include much, as most of the material I have been reading is much better suited for the article on Warren but anything relevant to Warren and the Rock Springs Massacre should be included I would say. Comments?
  • I have a pretty good idea what to say here. It is really a big unknown. Yes, Warren was involved with land dealings and dealings close to UP before the riot, his reaction to the riot may have been influenced by this but it was also likely influenced by a desire to protect the Chinese miners.(Chokell). The "scandal" I referenced above really wasn't. It was a matter of political differences. Cleveland was a dem, Warren was rep, to put it simply. The Dept of Interior received letters for and against Warren for govt, including one from UP president supporting him as governor. In the end two lawyers sent lengthy treatises charging that Warren had illegally used federal funds and illegally used his position in his land dealings. Instead of go through with the circus or whatever he resigned. When Benjamin Harrison took office in 1889, he was reappointed governor of Wyoming. That's the skinny of it anyway. I will clean this up and such. IvoShandor 18:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Causation - racial factors.
  • Y Done The KOL was important to labor history (not the most important - of course) and the Rocks Springs Massacre was significant to the KOL (but not the most significant event - Haymarket et. al. had much more influence on the group). Found this in a book review (one of many widely panning Craig Sorti's conclusions) on JSTOR.
  • This idea should be added, I have the cite already ready already.
  • Sentence added. IvoShandor 13:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Copy edit
  • On going
  • Submitted request to the League of Copyeditors for some outside eyeballs. IvoShandor 12:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Did some, mostly stubby, the UP one is the best of the three. The other two I am having a hard time turning up reliable info on, may just delink them for now. IvoShandor 12:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Conclusion: I was thinking significance: Could talk about Camp Pilot Butte's listing on the Register and what happened to it, the military's stay in Rock Springs and how Rock Springs was seen as the worst of the incidents even though it didn't have the most casualties and why. Just a good wrap up basically. Also talk about the lasting affect on Warren - if there was anything relevant (see above) as well as the Knights of Labor and them distancing themselves from anti-Chinese agiatation in Rock Springs to avoid condoning the massacre. (NYT article c. 1885).
  • Is this even necessary? Any comments? IvoShandor 17:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Rework lead (again)
  • I have condensed the lead, shorter now and I think it is still a good summary. IvoShandor 07:56, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Memorials: ongoing, still trying to find out if there are any.
  • Y Done Anti Chinese cat?
  • Y Done Add other ethnicities of white miners (Irish and one other: must read source again), make sure it is clear that basically everyone was an immigrant.
  • Y Done Immediate aftermath: the failed strike a month or so after the riot, which was not supported by the national Knights of Labor org.
  • Images: Riot itself and Causation could use illustrations of some sort, another image somewhere in the article would probably be useful. Any help would be appreciated. IvoShandor 17:55, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done It seems that there is some contention over the number of dead. I have seen at least two published sources say 51, as if there was no dispute, I had chalked this up to a simple discrepancy because everything else said 28. We may need to add the qualifier confirmed, I have found a source from the University of Wyoming that states some who fled were never heard from again and that "40 dead" may be more accurate. I think that this should be added in the two main instances where the number of dead is asserted (the lead and the massacre section). IvoShandor 18:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done I have a citation somewhere that talks specifically about the miner's wages, this would be relevant in the causation section. IvoShandor 18:29, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I may have just dreamed this up as I cannot locate it, marking done, its pretty detailed and the article won't die without it. IvoShandor 00:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Present day location. I am waiting to find out some more information before I proceed. This information would be best where? The conclusion? Any thoughts? IvoShandor 18:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Just added to conclusion, anything additional can always be added. IvoShandor 00:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I will try to add to this. IvoShandor 12:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Added bit about images, need help here. IvoShandor 17:55, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thoughts

Here are just a few thoughts about the article after Ive read through the new updates. Most of my comments are just comments and might not need addressing, they are just thoughts, anyway:

  • Y Done Firstly reading through the lead, it does seem a bit long? I also feel that some of the statements need referencing, even though they are later referenced in the actual article itself e.g. After the men were released, the mining company dismissed 45 white miners for their participation in the lawlessness. and No connection was ever established between the riot and the national Knights of Labor organization.
  • Two people say to long so when I rewrite it I will shorten it (yes I am going to rewrite it again). I will add the refs, are those the only two sentences in the lead that need them? IvoShandor 11:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Are the grafs just too long? WP:LEAD says three to four for an article of this size and that it should represent a stand alone summary of the entire article (not too too much detail). Any advice here would be helpful. IvoShandor 11:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done In 1880, Rock Springs was home to Chinese laborers, miners, a professional gambler, a priest, a cook, and a barber - reference?
  • Added.
  • Y Done There is a new sentance, which is entirely in brackets - either it shouldnt be a new sentanced or the brackets should be removed - (In 1882, the organization had worked for the passage of the Chinese Exclusion Act).
  • Removed from parenthetical and reworded slightly. IvoShandor 11:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done They ran in every direction: some up the hill behind coal pit number three; others, along the base of the hill at coal pit number four; others still, from the eastern end of the town, fled across Bitter Creek to the opposite hill; and more fled from the western end of Chinatown across the base of the hill to the right of coal pit number five. - is the reference for this the one at the end of the paragraph?
  • Yeah. Ref # 19. I can add another citation if it'll help. IvoShandor 11:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Didn't add the ref but this is covered by the Chinese account as well as a couple of the general references I have added. IvoShandor 13:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done In the days following the riot, many of the Chinese immigrants in Rock Springs fled 100 miles west to Evanston, Wyoming. - reference?
  • Have several that confirm this, will add. IvoShandor 11:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Added.

Overall though a great article, not too far from being a featured level imo. The psot massacre violence section is much better concise as it is. Hope some of these comments are useful. LordHarris 22:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semi Automated Peer Review

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

Don't see any months etc linked, any irrelevant links? IvoShandor 15:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I don't think there is, unless anyone has some suggestions. IvoShandor 15:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I don't know about this one, Causes maybe, the massacre section has to stay put, maybe outcome? don't want to make it too short, I am pretty satisfied with the length of readable text overall. The Post-massacre violence section was broken up per summary. 15:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
  • Working on this - have applied the first section of exercises and am working through more. As for the vague size terms, I will clean this up, a few of them should be okay, as exact numbers aren't really available. IvoShandor 15:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Also ongoing. : ) IvoShandor 15:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Ruhrfisch 13:20, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some more thoughts

  • The article is not too long - it is nicely balanced at the moment, in my opinion. If you do tighten things up, don't lose the flow and balance. Carcharoth 15:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Copy editing will tighten things enough probably, I am removing a lot of extra words right now. IvoShandor 15:48, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • The Chinese immigrant child doesn't feel like a good picture for the background section. Can you not find a more general picture? Carcharoth 15:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I can look, the American Memory collections at the Library of Congress have several that may be applicable. IvoShandor 15:48, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
How about a late 19th century Chinese-American vegetable peddler in Idaho? There are also some shots of some mines in Wyoming, not sure where one could go though. IvoShandor 16:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Either or both would be perfect. Depends on the balance of pictures and text. It is nice you have the portrait shots of politicians and others involved, but ones of Chinese immigrants and miners would be nice to balance it.

Carcharoth 16:22, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I have found several images from the Library of Congress (these are but a few candidates: [1]: (miners in Ouray County, Colorado - some possibly Asian); [2]: (Charles Denby); [3]: (Chinese at work on the railroad in the late 1860s); [4]: (Chinese railroad workers posing with their white foreman)
The only thing is that it appears that these images may only be qualified under fair use, though I am fairly certain a few of them, at least, are in the public domain in the U.S. due to their age. The "rights and reproductions" notice is linked from each page, they are all pretty much the same, the notice mentions fair use but also leaves it open as to what the licensing is. What do you think? IvoShandor 18:20, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The links aren't really working (they are temp links - better to give the LoC ID number), but I think I found the pictures you were talking about. I know what you mean about LoC copyright issues - you need a date to be certain the copyright has expired. Can't help much more than that, I'm afraid. Good luck with FAC. Carcharoth 21:59, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I agree that the date wikilinking is fine as is, and that there is no suitable infobox. Carcharoth 15:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I just linked to Qing Dynasty. I feel something about the background of where the immigrants were coming from would be nice. Maybe a brief recap on the state of China at the time and relations between China and the US. Were the immigrants coming across the Pacific, or coming in from the east? Carcharoth 15:53, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I have a couple sources that talk about this. A lot of them came across the Pacific to San Francisco, a kind of Ellis Island for the west. From there they spread out, depending on the location in the American west the immigrants hailed from different areas of China. Many of the Wyoming immigrants, especially those in the Rock Springs-Evanston-Green River area, were from Guangdong, which is why you saw the protest from citizens there in Canton. American Chinese relations were really in their infancy as far as diplomacy and mutual cooperation goes. How long should this be? A short paragraph should suffice I am thinking, basically what I wrote above, cleaned up for tone and cited. ? IvoShandor 15:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Not to mention for years after this (and of course 1882) treaties between the U.S. and China excluded much Chinese immigration. IvoShandor 16:03, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
What you said, but keep it very short. If you have more information, find another article to put it in. Carcharoth 16:22, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • You could probably find suitable pictures for the other sections as well. Causation could have a picture of any earlier riots or labor demonstrations, a pic of a Chinese or US ambassador would be nice for the "Diplomatic and political issues" section. Image:YellowTerror.jpg is a bit later than this incident, while Image:Chinese railroad workers in snow.jpg unfortunately has no date (could be 1860s?). Anyway, some ideas, not all of which will work out. Carcharoth 16:29, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reference format

I recommend the split references/notes format, e.g. that used in Alcibiades or Theramenes. I've started formatting the references this way. Also, I've linked to the NYT articles directly, and not just through ProQuest. – Quadell (talk) (random) 19:18, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't realize they were available, that would have been a lot easier. : ) IvoShandor 07:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, I guess they have to be purchased, but a couple of them would have saved trips to library, I originally tracked all of this down via microfiche. Blah. Talk about taking forever. IvoShandor 07:34, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Do these links require a subscription? What's the point of linking to them in that case? There must be some mention of subscription-required pages in the relvant policy or guideline. Ling.Nut 10:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I didn't check them myself, some NYT articles do some don't, the ProQuest can usually be accessed at most libraries though. IvoShandor 20:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification needed in "Background" section

"In 1880, the Chinese in Rock Springs worked in occupations outside of mining, though, most Chinese workers were employed in the coal mines around Wyoming and Sweetwater County."

1) Isn't Sweetwater County in Wyoming? If so, then "... around Wyoming and Sweetwater County" needs to be clarified. Either specify another location in Wyoming ("Sourwater County and Sweetwater County"), or indicate inclusion: "in Wyoming in general, and particularly, in Sweetwater County". Let me know what the intended meaning is, and I'll try to phrase it more clearly.

2) In the first clause, is the intent that the Chinese in Rock Springs worked only in non-mining occupations, as opposed to those who mined (coal) in (see #1 above)? Or is the intent that they worked other occupations in Rock Springs as well as being employed in coal mining in Rock Springs? Again, say intent, and I'll re-phrase the original. Unimaginative Username 18:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The Chinese in Rock Springs in 1880 weren't really miners at this point according to sources, the intent being that even though that wasn't the case in Rock Springs it was in the much of the county and the rest of the state. Thanks btw. : ) IvoShandor 20:21, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Gotcha. Done. Let me know whether the edit captures your intent properly. Unimaginative Username 21:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese Exclusion Act quote

"In 1882, the Chinese Exclusion Act required that "from and after the expiration of ninety days next after the passage of this act, etc."

If the quoted portion is a complete sentence of the original Act, then "From" should be capitalized. If the original sentence in the Act starts before "from", that fact, and the omission of the preceding portion (ellipsis) should be indicated by "...from". (three dots) Advise which. Unimaginative Username 18:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The original suffers from horrendous punctuation, thank you 1882: "Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That from and after the expiration of ninety days next after the passage of this act, and until the expiration of ten years next after the passage of this act, the coming of Chinese laborers to the United States be, and the same is hereby, suspended; and during such suspension it shall not be lawful for any Chinese laborer to come, or, having so come after the expiration of said ninety days, to remain within the United States." IvoShandor 20:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Not horrible punctuation, just typical formal legalese :-). It does answer the question, though: There is an omission of words (ellipsis), so the dots go in ... Unimaginative Username 21:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
More less the capitalization: Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That from and after the expiration of ninety days I got their legalese right here! IvoShandor 06:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Also, the only additions you made that I didn't like was the readdition of "had" in a couple places where I thought it was redudant, just thought I'd see what you thought.
  • "had asserted": redundant - same meaning with just asserted
  • "in 1882, the Knights had worked for the passage of the Chinese Exclusion Act": same thing here.


IvoShandor 20:36, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Not to get into a discussion of past perfect or pluperfect tense here, but check http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pluperfect&x=0&y=0. We have been taken back in time to 1883, and then the narrative tells us of something that *had* already happened at this previous point (1883); namely, that in the previous year (1882); the Knights *had* done thus and such. Same with the guy who had already said something five years earlier.
In other words, if the narrative follows chronology (from the starting point in the past), use regular past tense:

"I came home at 6pm, and my wife made dinner." (past/past)

But if the narrative starts at a point in the past, then refers to something that *had been completed* (or done) earlier, use the past perfect:

"By the time I came home at 6pm, my wife had already eaten dinner." (past/past perfect).

Clear as mud? Unimaginative Username 20:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Muddy as clear. I knew there was a reason I avoided the English department. : ) IvoShandor 06:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Diplomatic: broken sentence

"In China, the governor–general of the Guangdong region suggested that Americans in China might be the target of revenge for the action in Rock Springs the U.S. government decided to capitulate."

"...the U.S. government decided to capitulate" doesn't fit into the rest of the sentence. Is it "...unless the US govt. etc...", or perhaps "... so the US Govt..." ? If not, what is the intent of these two unrelated sentences? Unimaginative Username 20:33, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Woops. Will look. IvoShandor 20:36, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Remove it. Remainder of some editing. IvoShandor 20:36, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Roger that. Done. Unimaginative Username 21:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is the building really owned by saints?

"The two buildings were owned by the Catholic Church, Saints Cyril and Methodius in Rock Springs."

Are we to understand that St. Cyril owns one building and St. Methodius owns another? Clarify, please :-) Unimaginative Username 22:13, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a church called "Saints Cyril and Methodius". See here. I've rephrased the sentence as "The two buildings were owned by the Saints Cyril and Methodius Catholic church, in Rock Springs." Carcharoth 23:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Ahh, much clearer :-). I also capitalized "Church" as part of a proper name, e. g. "Second United Baptist Church", etc., although it's not capitalized by itself.

Hope you didn't take the question as sarcasm or criticism. People naturally want to know why an edit was made, and sometimes it's hard to explain what sort of misinterpretation could result from their text without sounding critical. Same with all the other edits.

The article looks really good now. Good luck with FAC! Unimaginative Username 00:18, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I gratuiously linked to Roman Catholic Diocese of Cheyenne and Saints Cyril and Methodius, but stuck it in a footnote, as it's not really relevant to the article. Interesting link back to Eastern Europe though. Carcharoth 23:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

And getting back to the Chinese, we see that by the early 1900s "Chief among the immigrants in Rock Springs, following the exodus of the Chinese, were the Slovenes" [5], which explains the name of the church. Carcharoth 23:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Found a nice website

Found a nice website. Any use?

Some quotes:

  • "We are stopping now at a coal station, and have come upon the first signs of life except the miserable little house that adjoins the wood stations. There are coal mines around, on the hills on my left I see smoke rising out from the hills, it is a mine or fire, nearer us smoke rises from some tall chimneys of manufacturing buildings, we have come to the first busy looking place for many a long mile but the houses are all of the poorest description and look temporary. There is no appearance of home about them as there was in even cold and dreary Lamarie. There the land is cultivable and settlers have made homes there, here the fetid water's make mans stay here one of necessity never of choice."
  • "The houses of the miners are built in an abrupt ravine, the walls of which form one of the sides of their houses. The roofs and sometimes a window project above the surface of the ground -- the roofs are covered with dried earth and clay, and the whole settlement has such a queer appearance. Just now a "heaten Chinee" passed us trudging laboriously along with a big piece of raw meat at one end of a long branch he carries over his shoulder and a heavy sack on the other end. We have come to the region of chinamen. The valley around us is so queer flat with sudden fissures running through it."
  • "The Slovenes were, not, however, the first ethnic group to inhabit Rock Springs. As discussed with regard to Coal Camps, by 1885, Chinese constituted the largest population group in the area. In September of that year, festering resentment boiled over at Pit Number 6, resulting in the massacre of a number of Chinese and the burning of their houses. The resentment was as a result of a belief that the Chinese were keeping the wages down and by a favorable assignment of work at Pit Number 6 to the Chinese."

The best stuff though is in the third link above, relinked here. Have a look and see what you can use. Carcharoth 23:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I had seen this site. But I doubt it meets WP:RS. That music makes me want to shoot their webmaster. IvoShandor 12:17, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More Harpers Weekly stuff

Wow. Harpers Weekly have a whole webpage for the Chinese-American experience. The Immigrant and Ethnic America website from Harpers Weekly is at http://immigrants.harpweek.com/. Samples:

Can any of that be used? Carcharoth 23:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

As you might imagine, I have come across much of this stuff in my research, in particular I was trying to figure out how much to work in about the commission as the illustration is a good one (all of the old Harper's ones are really, in general, good). Probably would fit best in the arrests section (arrests and investigations or the like). The Seattle stuff would go well in Seattle riot of 1886, we could use something to illustrate the section here. Much of this could be helpful, I don't want to rely too too much on primary sources, though for descriptions of events they are often the only sources. I think much of this could be useful here and in subsequent work I would like to do in this area. IvoShandor 06:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Memorials, again

I never have heard back from the Rock Springs Chamber of Commerce, perhaps this isn't something the city likes to remember. My guess is, there isn't much commemorating it, probably a plaque or marker or something but probably not a full-blown memorial, just based on the descriptions of the present-day locations, I would guess if there were a marker or memorial it wouldn't be completely unreferenced in the writings about Rock Springs today. Hard to say though. There are some articles listed above somewhere, two from the Annals of Wyoming and one from Montana, which I cannot find around here which would be helpful, not necessarily about the memorial but they could easily contain a remark about that topic. I cannot find them around where I am at (Illinois). IvoShandor 06:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

Okay, I had a bunch of comments typed up and my fucking computer konked. Like I was saying before my computer took a dump, these are mostly just suggestions/questions. I don't have the patience to type them all up carefully again, so these will be quick and choppy:

  • Y Done Why is the monetary unit again unlinked again when it first appears? See WP:$.
  • No idea. Will fix. IvoShandor 12:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done I think "approximately" would sound more formal than "about" in the last sentence of the lead's opening para. Also, I guess leaving "in" out is fine but "in property damage" sounds better to me.
  • Y Done I positively hate citations in leads so I would cut that one.
  • Me too, but someone challenged a couple things in there awhile back. IvoShandor 12:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Removed anyway, the cite is there later on. IvoShandor 10:13, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done "In the immediate aftermath of the riot, federal troops were deployed in Rock Springs. The troops escorted the surviving Chinese miners, most of whom had fled to Evanston, Wyoming, back to Rock Springs a week after the riot." I think you could start the second sentence with "They escorted..." It would be clear who you're refrerring to and it avoids saying troops twice in close quarters.
  • Y Done "Rioting and mob actions broke out in Seattle, Tacoma, and Issaquah, Washington, in the months following the Rock Springs Massacre." This could be changed to "Rioting and mob actions also broke out in Seattle, Tacoma, and Issaguah, Washington." The months following seems unnecessary and redundant as it obviously occured afterwards. The new wording does add a dreaded additive term but it cuts out some extra words. Just a suggestion.
  • I wanted to make it clear somehow that despite the connection to events in Rock Springs that the other West Coast violence wasn't necessarily immediately following the riot. IvoShandor 12:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Why are there endashes instead of hyphens in Maintenance-of-the-way workers?
  • I don't know, I or someone else was high? Are they supposed to be hyphens? WP:DASH is confusing anyway. ; ) IvoShandor 12:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done It's kind of perfunctiory since the sentence contains the source but someone might ask you to put a inline cite on this sentence as there are quotation marks: "Racism against Chinese immigrants was widespread and largely uncontroversial at the time. J.R. Tucker, in the aforementioned 1884 article, referred to Asian immigrants as "...the Asiatic race, alien in blood, habits, and civilization." He also noted, "Chinese are the chief element in this Asiatic population.""
You think? Even with the article being cited inline in the first citation within the body of the text? IvoShandor 12:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Generally Footnotes go above the Bibliography from what I've seen. WP:GTL seems to indicate that as well.
  • Y Done "A Chinese immigrant child, c. 1900. Chinese children were rare, and not typical of late 19th and early 20th century Chinese immigrants, who were overwhelmingly male." Shouldn't this be adult males? Children can be male as well.
  • That caption was a product of the peer review pre-GA nomination, someone else wrote it, just FYI. I will clarify. IvoShandor 12:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I think I am going to just change this picture to something slightly more relevant. IvoShandor 10:13, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done "The increase during the decade 1870–1880 was" — "decade 1870–1880" is kind of clunky, I've never heard a decade referred to that way before you could just leave out the numbers as you've mentioned in the opeing of the para you're discussing the 1870s. Or you just say 1870s again.
  • Likewise again in the last sentence of the para, maybe that's just something I haven't seen and am not used to.
  • Probably redundant anyway. 1870s would probably be much more common. IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • The opening section is stat heavy, which is fine if you're good with some of thoise fancy computer programs maybe you can create some kind of graph and left align it for illustrative purposes.
  • I am not but I know someone who is. That would be a handy reference to have, the table I mean. IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • If you can, I'd prefer you combined any refs that appear in succession. They can be combined using the system in Tourette syndrome, this only works for refs that aren't repeated.
  • I will take a look at that, I was not familiar with that type of referencing, always more to learn around here. : ) IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done "The white miners at Rock Springs felt that Chinese laborers, in accepting lower wages, drove wages down for the white miners, comprised of mostly Swedish, Welsh, Irish and Cornish." This sentence reads a little awkwardly.
  • Yeah it does. IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Tough one but I reworded it. IvoShandor 10:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done "According to a deposition taken by the Chinese government and signed by 559 Chinese from Rock Springs, the Chinese there knew of ill–will from the white miners." Same deal as the sentence with the quotations in it.
  • Ah yes, probably an oversight. IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done "They declared that the Chinese laborers had no right to work in a particularly desirable "room" in the mine; miners were paid by the ton, so it was important where in the mine one worked." The use of one seems awkward here, I guess it's alright though.
  • could say in the mine miners worked or in the mine laborers worked to make it flow more smoothly. IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done "which by this time had grown quite large." This seems kind of informal.
  • Massacre section could use osme kind of map if possible.
  • I don't know if I could come up with one without it being OR, I would need some help from someone with access to a good library in Wyoming, probably, I haven't seen any maps of Rock Springs from that era, I have a few written descriptions but they aren't exactly very clear. I will go back to the library here, perhaps there is something in one of those books I can use for reference, this may take some time. IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done "As the white miners moved into Chinatown, the Chinese became aware of the riot and that two Chinese, Leo Dye Bah and Yip Ah Marn, residents from the west and east sides of Chinatown, had already been killed." I guess these names are important but they kind of clog up the flow of the sentence.
  • Just dropped the extra "two Chinese." IvoShandor 10:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done "The massacre was in full swing by a little past 3:30 p.m." — in full swing is kind of informal, also "a little past" violates this but I guess there's no more specific term that can be used.
  • Yes on the informal, will fix. Maybe by saying after 330 somehow, reworking the sentence, not sure. IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • "The situation in Rock Springs was stabilized as early as September 15, when Warren first requested the removal of federal troops, but the mines at Rock Springs remained closed for a time." I guess this is "for a time" as we don't have a specific time period?
  • Perhaps, if I piece it together. I will see what I can do. IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • The last two paras of the "Immediate aftermatrh" section are a little confusing because it goes chronologically then suddenly goes backwards. Also the "for a time" sentence is throwing me off. What is the exact date the mine re-opened? When the company re-opened the Rock Springs mine they fired 45 white miners, which makes it seem as though some were still employed (105 given the earlier info) then later it says after the mines re-opened for a time no whites were working there. What I'd like to know is: the date the mines opened; the date the whites returned to work there; how long the whites strike lasted after the mines opened.
  • Y Done Those arrested as suspects in the riots were released a little more than a month later, on October 7, 1885. On their release, they were "…met . . . by several hundred men, women and children, and treated to a regular ovation," according to the reporting of The New York Times. —"the reporting of" appears to be redundnat extra wording.
  • Y Done "For its own part, the coal mining company discharged 45 white miners for their participation in the riot.[17]" This is already stated in the previous section seems redundant to mention it twice.
Oops. IvoShandor
  • "corps reported rising anti–American sentiment" I'm a little unsure of the use of hyphens and endashes overall, I know endashs go on certain adjectives. I guess I might need to read up on that.
  • See comment above. IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done "Powderly blamed the "problem" of Chinese immigration on the failings of the 1882 Exclusion Act. He blamed lax law enforcement, not those involved in the riots, for the attacks at Rock Springs." Saying blamed twice that close together makes for weak prose.
  • It does. Will fix. IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done The New York Times refs should have pub dates.
  • They do, or do you mean the inline cites? IvoShandor 12:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay, done. Quadzilla99 10:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. You may have noticed I had to step away from this one for a bit. It just got to be too overwhelming. I will be looking at it again soon and will consider all comments that have yet to be unaddressed on the talk page very carefull. I will post some responses to a few of the above comments that I already have in mind. IvoShandor 12:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
{[done}} One other nitpick, it should be Rock Springs massacre (lower case m). As in Columbine High School massacre, Saint Valentine's Day massacre, and all the articles on List of massacres. All this nitpicking aside, the article is very good overall and I expect you'll be going for FA on it soon right? Ping me when you do. Quadzilla99 13:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Still left to do before FAC

  • Rewrite lead.
  • Y Done Maybe check the length, lose a few statements? IvoShandor 10:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Haha. I already did this a long time ago. IvoShandor 11:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done Change image in background section.
  • Changed and added image, found better version of mining camp image. Should I edit out the colored strips at the bottom of the image or not? IvoShandor 12:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Immediate aftermath section : The last two paras of the "Immediate aftermatrh" section are a little confusing because it goes chronologically then suddenly goes backwards. Also the "for a time" sentence is throwing me off. What is the exact date the mine re-opened? When the company re-opened the Rock Springs mine they fired 45 white miners, which makes it seem as though some were still employed (105 given the earlier info) then later it says after the mines re-opened for a time no whites were working there. What I'd like to know is: the date the mines opened; the date the whites returned to work there; how long the whites strike lasted after the mines opened. (Comment from Quadzilla99.)
  • Have revised the chronology, it should read much better now. Nothing like a couple months away to give my eyes a tune up as far as this article goes. I am still working on specific dates and think I may be (emphasize may) able to find them, or at least really close to the exact day, via the New York Times. It is possible they neglected to follow up. IvoShandor 12:35, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Map of area during massacre.
  • Hoping this won't hold up a potential FA as this seems difficult without OR, or an original map, any help from Wyoming members of the project will be solicited but it seems unlikely.IvoShandor 10:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Have requested help from a part time Wikipedian librarian via her blog, but again I hope this won't hold up an FAC. IvoShandor 11:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • So what's the deal with WP:DASH? Perhaps seek input.
  • Reference combining.
  • Not sure how this works or if it is necessary, not opposed to it just seems like a lot of work for what is already a pretty easy to interpret citation system. 10:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

This is what I see. I think a couple more copy edits by me and a couple others wouldn't hurt its chances either. IvoShandor 10:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Made sure that Rock Springs massacre appeared lower case throughout. Which brings up whether or not it matters whether its called a massacre or a riot throughout the article, it was both so any input here would be helpful. IvoShandor 12:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Review

Hi, IMO the article is excellent and would be happy to support it at FAC. The sections have been expanded and reference extremely well since its GA. I had a look and was unable to find any significant problems or major errors requiring a copyedit. I do have a few points to raise:

  • Is it possible to expand this section (given that there are many references and that this is one of the causes of the massacre) is it possible to expand on anything related to their belief that Chinese drove down wages? The white miners at Rock Springs, comprised of mostly Swedish, Welsh, Irish and Cornish immigrants, believed that lower paid Chinese laborers drove down their wages.[10][11][12][13][14][15]
  • The image caption could be expanded? Federal soldiers on South Front Street in Rock Springs, 1885 What are they doing on South Front street, whats their purpose etc/
  • The following is a long quote, perhaps quote template could be used? Powerful Knights of Labor leader Terence Powderly wrote in a letter to W.W. Stone (excerpts of which he included in a report to the U.S. Congress) that, "It is not necessary for me to speak of the numerous reasons given for the opposition to this particular race – their habits, religion, customs and practices . . ." Powderly blamed the "problem" of Chinese immigration on the failings of the 1882 Exclusion Act. He faulted lax law enforcement, not those involved in the riots, for the attacks at Rock Springs. Powderly wrote that the U.S. Congress should stop "winking at violations of this statute" and reform the laws which barred Chinese immigration, which he believed could have prevented incidents such as "the recent assault upon the Chinese at Rock Springs"

These are just a few suggestions but really well done. Drop me a message when you go FAC. LordHarris 20:28, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I will look at all of this but to be honest this is just getting to be too much (and I don't mean that to degrade you or anything) but I have worked and worked and worked and worked on this article and it still doesn't seem to be good enough. I am handstrung and am giving up. IvoShandor 06:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
That being said, there are a few things that can be addressed if they will hold up the FAC. Perhaps I will nominate it and see where it goes. IvoShandor 06:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I just wanted to say

Thanks to everybody who worked to make this article what it has become. : ) We made it to FA! Woohoo! IvoShandor 13:31, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations, IvoShandor! I know you've been working very hard on this. - CosmicPenguin (Talk) 14:50, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wha?

What? No star? : ( IvoShandor 14:56, 31 July 2007 (UTC)