User talk:Robert of Ramsor

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Welcome!

Hello, Robert of Ramsor, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! --Flex (talk/contribs) 05:26, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] reply to Flex

Thanks for the welcome and links to the Tutorial etc. I originally logged on since I felt that contributions as large as I was making (I have added 2 paragraphs to the Hugh Bourne article) were better done by someone who did not remain anonymous. I have some interest in Methodist history, and was pleasantly surprised to find that the originator (presumably) of this article had linked to a biography of Bourne which I posted some years ago on my web site. My original choice of user name was already taken, and I thought that this one would probably be unique. I have Methodist ancestors from Ramsor, Staffordshire, and it is one of the significant places in Primitive Methodist history.

I looked at your Talk Page, and found so many posts I thought it best to reply to you here. As far as I can see, the only means of posting in this way is to use the Edit Page option, which also means learning the peculiarities of the Wiki codes for formatting. I will now add the 4 tildes and see if it works for me.

Robert of Ramsor (talk) 23:46, 26 February 2008 (UTC) Using the Preview option, I see that it has added my signature.

Again, welcome. If I can help you, feel free to ask on my talk page (don't bother about it being lost -- I get messages when someone posts there). --Flex (talk/contribs) 02:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome!

Hello Robert of Ramsor! Welcome to Wikiproject Christianity! Thank you for joining. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! - Tinucherian (talk) 02:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC) Getting Started General • Task for You Wikiproject Talk Page • Templates Useful Links Project Category List of Christian Topics Christianity Portal Miscellaneous Featured Articles • Good Articles Did You Know? • Work Groups Anabaptist • Core Topics • Indian Christianity Iglesia ni Cristo • Jesus • Syriac Christianity Projects Article Requests • Destubbing Campaign Assessment • Articles Needing Clean-up Peer Review • Adopted Topics Similar WikiProjects Anglicanism • Bible • Calvinism Roman Catholicism • Lutheranism

[edit] DYK

On 4 March 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article H B Kendall, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

On 4 March 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ramsor, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Maxim_(talk) 21:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Style issues

Hello. Take a look at my recent edits to Methodist Union. Wikipedia:Manual of Style calls for fairly sparing use of capital letters in section headings. Thus "See also" and "External links", with lower-case "a" and lower-case "l", are correct. In the case of "Hymn Book" I decided it could be considered an abbreviation of the book title, so I left the "B" as capital, but since book titles are to be italicized, I set that section heading in italics. Michael Hardy (talk) 21:35, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Methodism

I think the best way to proceed with a possible Methodism group would be to list one on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals page, and see if it gets sufficient interest. The proposal is now listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Methodism. My guess is it will garner enough interest.

Regarding the changes to the articles, I think what you're basically talking about is to set up those sections in accord with Wikipedia:Summary style, which is something we would all clearly have no objections to. Whether they would be necessarily be identical in both articles is possibly questioinable, but the idea is definitely in accord with wikipedia editing guidelines. John Carter (talk) 15:16, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Christianity#Proposed_Methodist_work_group

This might interest you - Tinucherian (talk) 17:34, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] copying my note on Methodist doctrine from Methodism discussion

This is what I posted on the Methodism article Discussion page about my Difference between arminianism and calvinism. I have copied it here in case anyone wants to discuss this on my Talk rather than the wider Methodism pages.

[edit] note in Lead on armininanism calvinism difference

Please note that this needs moving (later, when the whole article is further revised) from the Lead section to one on Beliefs in the article body, since the Lead is too long. I hope to work on this in April to cut down the number of words in the Lead.

I have changed back to what I said on the distinction between arminianism and calvinism for the following reasons.

My original is

The primary difference is that Arminians interpret the Bible as teaching that the saving work of Jesus Christ is for all people (general atonement} but effective only to those who believe in accordance with the Reformation principles of Grace alone and Faith alone. Calvinists emphasize the deterministic interpretation of Election, that salvation is only for a few decreed by God (limited atonememt) while all others are decreed to be condemned.

end of extract.

A. Jacobus Arminius and John Wesley are fully within Reformation principles and thinking. Note that I did not say Reformed here, partly because some calvinists equate reformed with calvinist ignoring the wider strands of the Reformation. The principles known as the "4 Solas" (or 5 in some lists) are common ground between arminians and calvinists.

B. "Election to damnation" is one of the basic tenets of calvinism (though not part of the TULIP summary), as is "limited atonement". (I think it is the 1659 Particular Baptist Confession, I need to check when I get time.) On calvinist discussion web sites (example, Challies), some refer to unbelievers as "VOWFTD" - "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction". While I would not include this in a Wikipedia article, it can be found by anyone looking at these discussions.

C. As an engineer by training, I see the calvinistic emphasis on the decrees of God from the beginning of eternity as being deterministic, hence including the term.

I therefore maintain that my original (accepting with thanks the edit by KitHutch) is an accurate and factual description and I therefore stand by it as according with Wikipedia principles. But there may be a case for inserting a note that calvinists also accept the Solas.

Robert of Ramsor (talk) 19:03, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Correction - Baptist Confession is 1689 not 1659. Anyone who reads Section 3, on God's Decree, cannot fail to see either determinism or election to damnation. By way of example, young Andrew Fuller (1754-1815) scandalised the society of Soham Baptist Church for rebuking a fellow member for drunkenness; the pastor excused Fuller for his youth, and argued responsibility for keeping from open sins, and was forced to resign; the man admonished by Fuller "smelt ... the Arminian heresy that a man could be his own keeper in matters of conduct." (Griffiths, "A pocket History of the Baptist Movement", p.109) Yet calvinist Paul Washer is preaching this "arminian heresy" of holy living as vigorously as John Wesley. (I am giving reference for my original statement, not advocating a doctrine.) I need to add the 1689 Confession as a reference to the Methodism article. Robert of Ramsor (talk) 20:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is (or so I understand) not the place to debate issues of doctrine in great detail. But I think it is allowed to debate references to primary material to authenticate particulars (no pun on calvinistic baptists intended) in articles. BTW, I find that I have contributed 11 references on the numbered list of 20, just on my revision of the Lead section alone. Robert of Ramsor (talk) 21:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Christianity Newsletter

The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter

The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter! Issue IV - April 2008 Monthly Challenge: Article News Go on over to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity. A lot is going on and your input is needed! Look over the recent changes list for recent improvements to articles, other changes and vandalism. Articles needing improvement can be found in Category:Christianity stubs. Twenty four articles are at FA level and Forty four are GA level articles. You can help by adopting a topic. Christianity Articles by Quality Make visible or invisible by clicking Show or Hide, respectively. Christianity articles Importance Top High Mid Low None Total Quality FA 1 9 10 31 51 A 2 1 2 5 GA 5 6 16 61 8 96 B 42 95 154 261 245 797 Start 12 58 306 1248 1866 3490 Stub 16 132 2100 1656 3904 List 2 18 18 67 105 Assessed 62 187 636 3721 3842 8448 Total 62 187 636 3721 3842 8448 Project News WikiProject Christianity Coordinators : The project coordinators are generally responsible for maintaining all of the procedural and administrative aspects of the project, and serve as the designated points-of-contact for procedural issues. They are not, however, endowed with any special executive powers, nor with any authority over article content or editor conduct.The Lead Coordinator bears overall responsibility for coordinating the project; the Assistant Coordinators aid the Lead Coordinator and focus on specific areas that require special attention. The nomination period for coordinators is currently ongoing at Election 2008 Nominations for open positions will be open through 23:59 (UTC) on April 30 and project members should vote for any candidates they support by April 11 2008. The election will be conducted using simple approval voting. Any member of the project may support as many of the candidates as they wish. The candidate with the highest number of endorsements will become the Lead Coordinator (provided he or she is willing to assume the post); the next four candidates will become Coordinators. Two new workgroups formed - Indian Christianity and Methodism Portal:Indian Christianity launched. Member News Our membership continues to expand. It is currently at 184 users. 86 new users have joined the WikiProject since last issue. Please make them feel welcomed! Archives of previous newsletters can be found here. To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, add your name here. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, let ~ Tinucherian know. This newsletter is automatically delivered by GrooveBot.

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[edit] WikiProject Christianity Newsletter

The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter

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[edit] WikiProject Christianity Newsletter

The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter

Archives  |  Tip Line  |  Editors The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter Issue VI - June 2008 Project news We now have 51 featured articles and 98 good articles, with the recent promotions of Hubert Walter to FA class, and Oswald of Worcester, Papal election, 1292-1294, Pontius Pilate's wife, and Towson United Methodist Church to GA level. Thanks to all those who worked on these articles! Member news The project currently has 233 members, 15 joined & 1 leavers since the start of May 2008. Other news Roman Catholic Church is currently a featured article candidate. Bath Abbey has been nominated for GA status. Related projects news New Projects and/or work groups have been proposed for Christian theology and Christian denomations. Christianity related news Barack Obama leaves Trinity United Church Court ruling on FLDS case From the Members Welcome to the Sixth issue of the WikiProject Christianity newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do. Luckily, you all won't have to see my comments very often, as very little I have to say is really that important. But I would like to take the opportunity to say that I hope everyone finds the new General Forum page useful for discussing ideas relevant to Christianity in general, and feels free to make any additional comments regarding general Christianity there. Also, if any of you feel that you want to place a comment here in the future, please let us know what you want included. We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask. Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do. John Carter (talk), Lead Coordinator Newsletter challenge We are initiating a new feature here. Every month, we will list one misisng article. The first person to start the article will be mentioned by name in the next newsletter, as well as any others should they help get included in the Main Page DYK's section. This month's article is Church of Daniel's Band. To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. This newsletter is automatically delivered by TinucherianBot (talk) 09:01, 9 June 2008 (UTC)