Talk:Requiem

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I would like to include the text and translation for every section of the requiem. It's unconvenient to go back and forth the mass end the requiem pages to be able to understand what the requeim is about. Or is there anything wrong about it? Muzzle

While modifying I realize the Dies Irae is really long so it could make sense to have a separate page for it (not sure, tell me what you think) so I just added all the section from the Ordinary of the Mass. Muzzle

We have a page for Dies Irae that contains the full text and a translation. -- Smerdis of Tlön 13:37, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A thought. The Kensmen site should be labeled...It's associated with a Schismatic group, the Society of St. Pius X. I've not the confidence to do it without being afraid of breaking something, so could someone else do it? -Penta 18:31, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No, it's not - the owner attends the indult Mass, not the SSPX. Sympathy with some of the SSPX's positions is not schism. But, since your comment is over a year old, I'll move on. I've restored the Preface, as that section contains the sung parts proper to the Mass of the Dead. The Preface is such a part, and it's unique to the Requiem Mass. One could argue for the inclusion of the Epistle and Gospel, as well as the Collect, Secret, and Postcommunion, although those are changeable, depending on which Mass for the Dead is being said. PaulGS 04:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The Liber Usualis presents the Preface as a spoken portion of the Requiem. No chant melody is given for it. If it's supposed to have a recitation tone, that hardly gives the Preface much weight as a musical portion. Mademoiselle Fifi 22:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
The Liber is intended for use by the Choir, so there would be no need for the melody of the Preface to be given there. The book's already long enough, and if they can save a few pages by omitting the Preface melodies, they'll do it. Since it's always chanted by the Celebrant alone, the melody's found in the Missal. It's the Ferial tone only, the solemn tone being inappropriate for the occasion. That's probably the reason why settings of the Requiem omit it - they only include the portions chanted by the Choir. But the Preface is one of the parts of the Mass that is always chanted (except, of course, at Low Mass).
Maybe, though, "musical portions" isn't the best way to have this section. We don't need the entire Mass, since, besides being far too long for the article, most of it doesn't change. A better way might be to rephrase it to include the parts proper to the Mass of the Dead, selecting the Missa in Die Obitus (Mass on the Day of Burial) for those parts which change from one Mass of the Dead to another. After all, the article is about the liturgy, not just musical settings of it. But, like I said before, I'd be fine with omitting the changeable parts, but the Preface is the same at all Missae Defunctorum, and I think it should be included.PaulGS 02:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Monty Python reference

Does the reference to Monty Python have to be included right in the body of the Pie Jesu discussion? It just seems jarring to read it there-- perhaps mentioning it in a footnote would be better.

MAGO DE OZ uses this too

--Luis Fernandes Nov 6, 2005

I agree. In general, I think the numerous popular culture references don't belong in articles at all, but people keep putting them back. A common practice is to make a "trivia" section at the end, or a "xxx in popular culture" section at the end. Antandrus (talk) 17:04, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Amanda Hammond May 2006=

A requiem is not to be sad and morbid. It was a way for people to remember and celebrate the passing of a loved one's life and acheivements; or like in the story, THE DEATH OF A SALESMAN, Charley gives a requiem for Willie that explained things about Willie. Charley did this so Biff and Happy can better understand what their father was and why things were the way they were. --12.65.126.158 06:51, 3 May 2006 (UTC)Amanda12.65.126.158 06:51, 3 May 2006 (UTC)--


[edit] Roman Catholic liturgy

I felt the following phrase had to be removed from the section:'(The regular texts of the musical portions to be found in the Roman Catholic liturgy), laid down at the Tridentine Council, (are the following):'The Council of Trent did not actually 'lay down' the Missa pro defunctis, which dates to at least the fourteenth century and was widely used before Trent. What it did do was initiate a liturgical reform. The major effect of this was the bull Quo Primum, by which Pope Pius V declared that the liturgical rite of Rome was, with some exceptions, to be the liturgy of the entire Western church.The Dies Irae does have a special connection to Trent, as it was one of the handful of Roman sequences permitted by the reform, most having been abolished. --Gazzster 21:17, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

And... The Dies irae should be removed from this section of the article since it is no longer part of the (Novus Ordo) Roman Catholic liturgy.Cshobar 01:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it is, but it's now optional. InfernoXV 04:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Added a Composer

Quoting the page: "In his "Requiem FPCON ∆", Josh Armenta interlaces the Requiem text with the victims list of the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attacks and William Ernest Henley's "Invictus.". I have added this information before, but it has been deleted due to lack of citations. I know the composer personally, however, I also have citation: Daily Herald, Neighborhood Section, June 1. Grayslake Central High School: "Student wins second place in Music Composition contest." The competing work was the requiem. Please, therefore do NOT delete this information. Thenextstephensondheim1 22:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, 24 google hits and a single mention in a local newspaper do not merit a mention here; our mission is to write an encyclopedia, which only includes, in general articles like this one, items of wide fame and established reputation. Please also read our conflict of interest guideline, since you know the composer. Thanks, Antandrus (talk) 00:00, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another Composer

I was a little surprised not to find Gregorio Allegri on that list. Surely 'Miserere Mei, Deus' is one of the most iconic Requiems of all time?  Exemplar Sententia. 23:24, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

It is iconic indeed, and beautiful, but it's not a Requiem. It's a setting of the Miserere (Psalm 51), one of the Penitential Psalms. A Requiem is a setting, at least in part, of the Requiem Mass. Antandrus (talk) 23:36, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plural

Isn't the plural of requiem "requia"? —  MusicMaker5376 22:00, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

No. It doesn't really have a Latin plural because it's an incipit. "Requiems" is a perfectly good English plural though. Tb (talk) 22:12, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kaddish

It says in the article that a Jewish version of the Catholic requiem is the Qadish. However, this is incorrect. Requiem means rest, and it is dedicated to the defunct person. However, the Jewish Qadish makes no mention of the defunct at all. Qadish speaks only about faith in G-d and it is a sort of requirement to express that even after the lost of a beloved one, we still believe in G-d. I hope somebody with better English than myself could correct that soon. Thank you. Alejandro Alatorre Vargaslugo (talk) 16:31, 27 April 2008 (UTC)