Talk:Red Dwarf/archive 3

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Not always post-watershed

A quick search of the BBC Programme Catalogue reveals that the August/September 1989 repeat of series 2 was shown at 8.30; that the October/November 1990 showing of Red Dwarf III was at 8:00 on BBC2; and that the May/June 1992 showing of series IV was at about 8.30-8.35. So "post-watershed" it may have been for the most part, but it wasn't so on every single occasion. 86.132.138.205 03:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I would like to see some evidence that it was ever considered a post-watershed program by the BBC. Looking at the guide only confirms my personal memory. For instance, every single one of the six episodes of Red Dwarf III was broadcast in 1990 at 2000 [1]. The same can be said of Red Dwarf IV [2]. Other episodes in earlier series were sometimes broadcast as early as 1830 [3]. The fact that Red Dwarf was usually shown at later times seems to reflect scheduling decisions rather than any perception that the content was unsuitable for children. --Tony Sidaway 03:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Thankyou! Finally somebody talking sense on this. 86.134.122.253 16:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, if you were working at the BBC, would you pass, say, "Holoship" or "Pete" as suitable for children? It would be inconsistant with their usual policy (the BBC has some quite strict guidelines about children's television, if my memory serves me correctly). The warning at the start of "Polymorph" about it being unsuitable for younger viewers (and "people of a nervous disposition") does seem to suggest that the show was normally regarded as family viewing, but it was quite clearly never meant as a children's show. RobbieG 11:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
So, in particular, you select "Holoship" and "Pete" as unsuitable for children? As a very young child I'd hardly find "Holoship" as accessible as something like the film ET for example, sure, but unsuitable? And "Pete"?! It's the single most obvious example of the show specifically PANDERING to the child market, for heaven's sake. There's no story there, just a load of flopping about like the Tellytubbies and getting into trouble. No adult I know can endure the nonsense of "Pete". Next question? 86.138.62.32 16:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
No, those were random examples, chosen purely because, off the top of my head, those were episodes that contained adult themes as plot elements. I know Pete was rubbish, but scenes like the "Boing" scene are clearly not aimed at kids. I'm not saying that watching Red Dwarf could give a kid mental scarring or anything like that, or that the BBC necessarily considered it post-watershed. I'm just emphasising that it was plainly never intended for children. RobbieG 14:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, according to you, nobody can *know* Pete is rubbish. It's a matter of opinion, and yours is one I bet loads of eight year olds would disagree with. The "Boing" scene, by the way, is just one of those things that is intended to make accompanying adult(s) laugh. It isn't unsuitable for children - the scene would just go over a child's head. Rather like various gags in the PG film Mrs Doubtfire. I hope I've successfully laid this topic to rest. 81.157.212.118 17:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Well you haven't, really. Especially given that the only factual evidence of the suitability of the series is its BBFC classification. Lo and behold, a quick scan of the DVDs reveals that not a single series was classed as less than a 12. As conclusive proof as can be found, I feel, that the programme simply was not written, made or broadcast specifically for children - irrespective of the fact that children may have watched it. Seb Patrick 08:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Examples of sitcoms written for children include Press Gang, My Parents are Aliens and Rentaghost. The schedule for these shows is a giveaway - placed in the children's TV slots on their respective channels. Not a slot Red Dwarf has ever been given, or requested. Rob and Doug have repeatedly cited shows like Porridge, MASH and Steptoe and Son as influences. Now, these may be pre-watershed programmes, and they can certainly be watched and understood by children, but they aren't designed for that audience. Ditto more recent primetime sitcoms like 2 Point 4 Children, My Family or My Hero. Similarly, PG films like the pre-89 James Bond series or Liar Liar can certainly be seen and enjoyed by children, but that doesn't make them the primary target. There is a difference between 'suitable for a young audience' and 'aimed at a young audience'.
(As a side note, more episodes of Series VII and VIII recieved individual 12 certificates than in Series I to VI combined. Artistic dicussion, inappropriate here, makes no difference - the fact is the content was deemed LESS suitable to a young audience than ever before.)
It's also important to remember that the nature of the watershed has changed a lot since 1988; the specifics of what could be shown before and after have become a lot more locked down. Content considered unsuitable before 9pm now was available at 8pm then, because the slots were less prescriptive; there was a gradual shifting of tone from 7pm to 11pm. The F word would still have been very, very rare even after 9pm. We can't hold the schedule of the time to present-day standards.193.203.75.243 11:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I think you've hit the nub of the matter with the use of the phrase "prime time". This whole "post watershed" discussion only came about because an anonymous user with - I believe - less than noble intent insisted on repeatedly describing the show as a children's programme. This meant that the lead was eventually somewhat compromised by having "post-watershed" put in there as a way of distinguishing it - as can be seen, though, it's by no means an appropriate phrase to describe the series. I think that calling it a "prime-time sitcom", however, would aptly sum up the audience it was pitched at - not specifically late-night, but by no means "for children", either. Seb Patrick 11:31, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I think I understand what you're getting at when you say "we can't hold the schedule of the time to present-day standards". You mean that if Red Dwarf VIII were being examined for commissioning today (never minding that the BBC have taken a stance against the quality of the latter series and thereby potential future ones), then they probably wouldn't put it in an adult slot because they'd perceive the tone as, in general, aimed directly at children. Thanks for clearing this up - I consider my previous position verified. 81.157.212.188 15:34, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Your "previous position"? That's strange, because the above comment is your first ever contribution to Wikipedia. It's rather difficult to sustain an argument, you know, if you're constantly posting under different anonymous IP addresses. Is that because you know that if you actually register an account, instead of hiding behind anonymity, you'll get banned? Also, isn't it strange that this IP address is the same as one that has just done searches for "kirk" and "mr flibble" on G&T? What's going on there? Seb Patrick 16:03, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Too much time on your hands mate. 86.142.44.73 17:51, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Quite probably, yeah. But you're hardly coming from a privileged position yourself, considering the amount of time you seem to reckon is worthwhile vandalising Wikipedia. Seb Patrick 09:19, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Only the Red Dwarf article, and I'd stop if you didn't keep reverting my vandalism. Ultimately you need me to do this so that you can do what you love doing, much as virus prevention software companies depend on the continued proliferation of computer viruses. 81.157.213.30 13:35, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think anybody can seriously argue that the watersheds nowadays are tighter than they were in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Shows like EastEnders (BBC1, prime time slots, sometimes as early as 1600) are considered family viewing despite constantly dealing with adult themes and often showing violent behavior (it has been criticised for showing gangland violence). Here's a typical episode synopsis [4], that show was broadcast at 2000. Compared to this kind of thing, the knockabout, scatalogical humor of Red Dwarf is very child-friendly. Discussing sex is definitely not a post-watershed matter in the UK, although it may be taboo in some other countries. --Tony Sidaway 17:49, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I may have been unclear (now posting from home, BTW). By tighter, I mean that it's more strictly adhered to; it's considered a serious guardrail, particularly to specific language use. This simply wasn't the case in, say, 1990, where the move into swearing, sex and violence was more gradual across the evening, and many things were still held back to 10 or 11pm. The line was drawn wide, shall we say. The watershed has since become more definite, more useful as a clear and definitive marker. This is a different issue from whether TV, as a whole, has become 'more permissive', and able to tackle more overall mature content in an earlier slot - which I concur is happening. But it's really a separate point to the one I was trying to make - which is the way the line has become, out of necessity, more firm. Which is a good thing - it's made it much easier for uncut movies, for example, to get a proper airing. Because a channel can state that it was post-watershed. 20 years ago that wouldn't automatically justify use of the F-word.
None of which relates to Red Dwarf, though. Which I would call 'mostly inoffensive' rather than 'child-friendly'. Nor did I suggest that sexual discussion is de factor a post-watershed issue. 91.104.78.61 19:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I take your hint that we're drifting off the subject. I think that it's best if I go back to the initial discussion, which seemed to relate to somebody's perception that Red Dwarf is a children's show. While it obviously isn't, and many of the broadcasts were post-watershed, I would say that it's widely perceived as a family show which children particularly enjoy. --Tony Sidaway 19:48, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Family show, maybe, but I don't think we can make even that claim without first providing evidence. I know plenty of people who enjoy Red Dwarf, but none of them is under the age of 15, and some of them are in their 40s. I've yet to meet anyone (outside this webpage) who believes that Red Dwarf is particularly enjoyed by children. RobbieG 19:58, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Well... this is probably more due to the age of Red Dwarf, and the fact it is rarely in the thoughts of today's television viewing audience (outside of specific fan sites of course), let alone the consciousness of today's trendy children. To most people, Red Dwarf remains an obscure programme cemented in the mindset of late eighties and early nineties, for which a hint of nostalgia is experienced whenever it's mentioned in more mainstream settings. I'd say this is the reason that kids aren't into it now, but they also aren't really into the other kids programmes mentioned above like Press Gang and Rentaghost. Something like Rentaghost is available on DVD for people who are now in their 20s-30s, even 40s, not people who are currently under 15. 86.142.44.73 16:07, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Well it's strictly unverifiable, but my kids certainly loved Red Dwarf as very young children. On the question of whether the BBC considered it to be family programming, this has already been established by the fact that it was occasionally broadcast during family viewing slots. --Tony Sidaway 20:20, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
That still confuses 'suitable for' with 'intended for'. Monty Python was something I adored at the age of 12, and it was often shown in a slot I was around for. Doesn't make it a 'family show' - a title which assumes an intention. New Who is a family show, it cultivates that title carefully and knowingly. We have no reason to suppose that Dwarf was made with any such intention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.78.61 (talk) 23:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I certainly don't argue that Red Dwarf was ever "intended" for children, or even specifically for family viewing. Perhaps my loose use of "family programming" is at fault. I mean simply "not strictly for post-watershed broadcast." --Tony Sidaway 06:20, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
This is all academic. There are people pulling in different directions on this and the views are all equally valid. Until Grant and/or Naylor are interviewed as to their intentions nobody will be able to state either way for sure. 86.142.44.73 16:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
No, the question at hand is not the wider issue (which we seem to have gravitated towards) but solely, in my view, whether the phrase "post-watershed", which was in the lead section for a while, was justified. On examination of the broadcasting schedule history, I removed that phrase [5] a week or so ago.
As to the history of the phrase "post-watershed", it seems that it was added on 13 March as a compromise after someone inserted into the lead a description of the show as "adult-orientated" (8 February) following this discussion. --Tony Sidaway 16:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Product-placement in Red Dwarf?

There's nothing in the article about the placement of products like Pot Noodle in Red Dwarf. Shouldn't this be included? - maybe we could have a section on the budget of the series, and include a sub-section on how they supplemented their BBC allowance with product-placement? Just a thought, mainly because I can't find anything about this elsewhere on the web and it might be useful within the wiki article. 81.151.172.154 20:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Given how the Pot Noodle was the butt of jokes whenever it appeared on the show (Lister choosing dog food over pot noodle in "Marooned" and expressing amazement at finding an edible pot noodle in "Demons and Angels", for example) I don't think it constitutes product placement. Infringement, maybe. RobbieG 22:42, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Are you sure? I always saw its being "the butt of jokes" as product placement of a negative kind, following the logic of the "I Hate Marmite" campaign. -- 86.132.200.17 (talk) 17:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Any product references have to be cleared, but the BBC remit doesn't allow for advertising or product placement. If a brand is named, it's for a joke or a reference, never promotion. The line came first, then the clearance - products were never introduced for financial gain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.99.38 (talk) 23:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Interesting. So essentially GNP had to clear use of Pot Noodle for episodes of Dwarf, but they wouldn't receive money for putting the product or logo on screen. Thanks for clearing this up. -- 86.132.200.17 (talk) 17:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The meteorites embedded in the ship

According to the Re-Dwarf documentary on the Bodysnatcher set, the meteorite didn't just smack into the ship - it is built into it so that the crew can mine it for energy to power the ship. This is why the remastered / series VIII version of the ship is so symmetrical with two of them. You did not know this fact so I win, thankyou! 86.141.194.49 (talk) 17:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

  • I always thought that since it was a "Mining" ship that it was carrying it back to earth.. I dont see why it would be needed to power the ship as it has a ram scoop at the front to do this... Not saying your wrong i'm just confused by it. --MattyC3350 (talk) 05:40, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
It's mentioned in the Re-Dwarf documentary on the Bodysnatcher disc. Up until recently I reasoned that the meteorite had collided with the ship at some point, as the non-remastered version of the ship doesn't make it look as though it's supposed to be there. However the remastered version of the ship has two of them, very symmetrically built into the ship. I always hated this, presuming that they'd still collided with the ship but that the design depicted it really badly. The Re-Dwarf documentary explains that the Red Dwarf crew are mining the meteorites for energy, but it (the documentary) doesn't go into depth. 86.143.182.72 (talk) 20:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Certainly the 'mining rock' idea was on Ed and Doug's mind for the remastered ship, and the two bays are deliberate and reflect this (Is this news? I thought it was a long-known idea). But, for the original version, it's not a completely locked-down fact for one simple reason - Rob and Doug's first novel, very specifically, discusses the rock attached to the 'old style' Dwarf: "[A] small moon, torn out of orbit, hand flung itself into the ship's solar plexus and was now embedded in the hull". It goes on to discuss the ship's only named surce of fuel - as collected by the Scoop. In interviews in the past, some have also mentioned that the ship was possibly BUILT around the moon, using the solid surface as a starting point for the massive vessel. So everybody's right. 193.203.75.225 (talk) 13:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Red Dwarf USA Info

Could anything be added to the Red Dwarf USA section about Robert not telling the other cast members about going over to do the American pilot and Craig being told off the Make-up lady as stated in the Dwarfing USA? I think it caused a bit of a rift with the English actors. --MattyC3350 (talk) 05:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

With reference to the below topic, can you see why adding this information would be superfluous to the article as a whole? Because this is the kind of extraneous detail that I think should be cut out, not added. 86.146.103.64 (talk) 17:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Can't we cut the article down a bit?

I know it's not what the contributors want as they're pretty hardcore fans who want every little detail in but this article is ridiculously large and ponderous for people who just want to glean some basic information. Can't it be cut down a bit... or even more substantially than that? 86.143.182.72 (talk) 20:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't see what's so ridiculous. Maybe a little trimming wouldn't hurt it, but if you just want some basic information, all you need to read is the intro. Nothing's forcing you to read the rest, since Wikipedia is not compulsary reading. Also, if people wanted to include "every little detail", I think they would include literally every single detail. This is a science fiction we're talking about - some fans are just plain obsessive. Just look at the Star Trek and Doctor Who articles: they have whole pages devoted to each story. At least we don't see that for Red Dwarf. RobbieG (talk) 22:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree with RobbieG. Apart from some trimming up it seems to have come along great. and like Robbie said there are plenty more wiki pages out there that have ridiculous ammount of info in it... after reading the Tardis page I think I could pilot it now --MattyC3350 (talk) 05:09, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Well personally I think that when people start going in with the "trimming up" scissors they'll start to realise a lot more isn't needed and the article will have the potential to be cut down to a more reasonable length. Probably everyone won't agree what should stay though. I predict a lot of people will just want to keep certain sections because they were themselves responsible for writing them. This is one of the main problems, I think. People aren't being objective. 86.133.167.86 (talk) 19:31, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I can say as only coming to this wiki page now for only a few weeks and not having anything to do with the adding of information only editing is that everything seems to be well balanced out for a show that is full of information. Maybe if enough people start saying the same thing then yes it would be time to go "trimming up" but for now the majority seems to like it. --MattyC3350 (talk) 05:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Not sure if we can be certain that "the majority" like it the way it is, as RobbieG says he's in support of trimming it, as did you in your post immediately prior to the one above, and you're the only two named people contributing to this thread. How many people would you like to "start saying the same thing" when you're not consistent across your own posts? Majorities are usually "silent" anyway, and whenever anybody tries to trim out bits of the article those edits are reverted as vandalism. It's only for the good of the article that the edits are made but people are so precious about what they've written that nothing objective can be done, in the end the hardcore fans win because they're here every day and get their way. 86.146.103.64 (talk) 17:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to point out that I'd rather this article was left alone than have anything major removed. I just don't think it would be a problem if someone wanted to trim it a little, that's all. RobbieG (talk) 18:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Llewellyn's Kryten used to have an English accent!

Haha check out the deleted scenes on the Bodysnatcher set! Llewellyn's Kryten used to have an English accent and make weird Popeye the Sailorman noises with his mouth! Someone please add this fact to the article. 194.66.226.95 15:16, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah it's true that's so random. "I'm programmed not to lie! PHEEEEP!!" 86.135.215.120 21:03, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
This must be why in DNA they say Kryten is more like Popeye than Deleuze when he says "I am what I am". 86.141.192.151 18:54, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Descartes not Deleuze, but yes you're probably right there. 194.66.226.95 (talk) 16:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup for peer review nomination

This article is very in depth, sometimes too much. Some sections need to be cleaned up or removed to conform to Wikipedia standards.

  • Recurring guest characters and Guest actors
Is this needed in the article? After all this info can be found on the List of Red Dwarf episodes.
  • Casting
Can someone place appropriate citations here. David Baddiel and Ronnie Barker??
  • Hiatus, changes, and disputes
Again a lot of uncited facts. While I know these to be true they still need to be backed up with appropriate citations. If no citations can be found the section may need re-worked.
  • Books
Once again citations people.
  • Mixed reactions
Guess... Yup, citations.

-- Nreive 11:37, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

You speak my language my man! My vote is for complete article deletion. 86.133.10.226 (talk) 19:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
No, the article needs improving from its current state, which, although flawed, is still worthy of being here. The whole point of my statement, by pointing out what these minor flaws, is to get editors to improve this article. -- Nreive 09:35, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
There should be a deadline for this process, and if it isn't met, the article should revert to a much earlier version (ie before all the superfluous details were added). 194.66.226.95 (talk) 13:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree that there should be a deadline, of what would have to be agreed on, but if the article is reverted to an earlier state then most of the recent citations added would be lost. I suggest that the article is overhauled and cleaned up. I could do this myself, but I would prefer to give the relevant contributing editors a chance to clean up or reference their own work. -- Nreive 15:20, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
The more recent citations might be lost but then so would the superfluous uncited details themselves. We need to be sure what we want; at the moment the article is bloated and full of details that aren't needed at all, put there by fans whose efforts would be better spent setting up a fan-site for these things. Earlier versions of this article don't have nearly as much peripheral content, and therefore won't require as many citations. I suggest we revert to an earlier version to make the process of adding necessary citations less daunting. 194.66.226.95 (talk) 15:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Should I make a start on this then? Does anyone object if I revert the article to, say, a version from 2005? 86.141.192.164 (talk) 19:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I object. --Lu Ta 20:23, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Do you object to the suggested restoration date, or to the whole concept of the restoration? I actually quite like this article as and of itself, but it isn't really up to wiki standards as it is, and i for one have nothing like the time to go through it and find (if possible) the relevant citations. It would certainly seem a more sensible approach to go back to a simpler version and then update as appropriate. Ged UK (talk) 20:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Reverting to a version from years back was suggested by an IP (194.66.226.95) which has been used to vandalise a Red Dwarf article, namely Red Dwarf Remastered, several times. Moreover, the recent attempt to revert it to a 2005 version left it with broken links, and templates and images which apparently no longer exist. As far as I can see, it's simply not practical to just turn the clock back like that. --Lu Ta 21:00, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
"vandalise"(!) 194.66.226.95 (talk) 16:23, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Clearly that version was inappropriate, but I'd argue the idea is fair enough. Unless anybody has time to wade through the article and bring it up to wiki standards then what is a better idea? 86.138.56.62 (talk) 21:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Since the editors that contributed the uncited sections appear not to be interested in the discussion here then I will look at editing the article in the next few weeks. If there are no available citations then the sections will be removed or re-worked. I propose to have this done by month end. Any objections let me know. -- Nreive 09:06, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Anything uncited should either be cited or go, yes, but I am opposed to the outright revertion of the article to an earlier stage. RobbieG (talk) 15:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
I think this proves some of the points raised above. RobbieG is more concerned with preserving his contributions (only made in the last few months) than ensuring the article is the best it can be. I say the following: do what needs to be done to make this article work, and be as objective as possible. I think it's good that Nrieve is doing it because he/she is detached from the contributions of individual editors. 86.141.192.192 (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Actually, no, and I resent that accusation. As a matter of fact, I haven't properly edited this article in months, and even then I don't know if I bothered to cite my edits (yeah, naughty of me), so the suggestion I was supporting would actually be more likely to delete my edits. I was seeking the improvement of the article, and concerned that a revertion might do more harm than good. Also, (no) thanks for the personal attack. RobbieG (talk) 09:57, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


Article cleaned up?

I've carried out some adjustments to the article, some minor, others more so.

  • Lead-in minor adjustment, added ref.
  • Re-organised section order, (changed order of Production, Characters, Spin-offs etc.) amended section titles slightly.
  • Production history - minor tidy, fixed refs.
  • Writing, producing, and directing - cleanup.
  • Red Dwarf Remastered - cleaned up section.
  • Regular characters - cleaned up.
  • Themes - adjustments.
  • Hallmarks - cleaned up.
  • Critical reactions and achievements - title changed slightly, added awards, refs etc.
  • Spin offs - (amended title slightly to Spin-offs and merchandise) Merged DVD/VHS sections, cleaned up the books, Tongue Tied, Movie and specials. Added refs. Added Red Dwarf Smegazine to section.
  • Final fix of other refs not formatted with "cite web" template.

If there's still anything needing added or fixed then please do so. I hope to get around to doing an in-depth proof read of the article soon. -- Nreive (talk) 11:35, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

All credit to you for the reshuffling and cleaning up - there's probably still some material that could stand to be chopped (and I say that as someone who originally wrote a fair bit of it) - but it's definitely looking in better shape. The structure is better, the range of images improved, and it's extremely useful having all the citations. Shame about the frequent and repeated vandalism going on, but if that can be kept on top of, it's looking in much better shape. Might be worth updating some of it, though, with information from the recent Doug Naylor interview as regards the movie/potential animated series... Seb Patrick (talk) 19:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
If my opinion is of value here, I say repeated vandalism of the article is a good thing and I'm looking forward to it being unlocked again in the future. Until then, I do hope you enjoy your new Christmas toys. 81.153.81.183 (talk) 21:39, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
All opinion's are of value, though I must ask what on Earth you mean by "I say repeated vandalism of the article is a good thing and I'm looking forward to it being unlocked again in the future". You surely realise that this goes against Wikipedia policy, and an attitude like this will get you banned rather quickly ;). I had it protected exactly because of the anon. IP vandalism - if that continues when the protection expires, I will just get it protected again, possibly for longer. TheIslander 21:55, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes I do understand that it's against Wikipedia policy, but what am I to do when it pleases me so much to annoy Red Dwarf fans? Locking the article is a reaction in itself, only confirming to me that I'm succeeding in winding you up. Looking forward to continuing this once the article is unlocked, however briefly - and do check out all the other articles on Red Dwarf episodes, characters, ships etc, as these won't be let off if the main article stays locked! Revert the vandalism, and keep on reverting it, every single moment that you have free! [winks in a slightly smug, TheIslander-esque way] 86.158.206.52 (talk) 14:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Should have done Rimmer in black and white

They should have done Rimmer in black and white shouldn't they. 86.157.96.115 (talk) 19:27, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that was the original plan but the process was too costly or complicated at the time - see 'Red Dwarf Magazine' section. -- Nreive (talk) 15:07, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The "I've been to Titan" drinking game

I have a few questions about the "I've been to Titan" drinking game (as mentioned here: http://www.groovetown.co.uk/songs/displaysong.php?id=458&cid=29), firstly do we think this should be mentioned in the article, and secondly is this actually based on another drinking game at all, or is it unique?--Hm2k (talk) 10:59, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Are you being serious? 86.133.245.210 (talk) 11:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
I've played that as a non-Red Dwarf related drinking game, and good as it, I don't think we can say it's encyclopedic, so i don't think we can include it in here Ged UK (talk) 17:29, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

David Ross

I was suprised to see , that David Ross's character Bio , had no mention of him presenting "scrap heap challange" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Textkingjoe (talk • contribs) 21:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not, mainly because he didn't. You're muddling him up with Robert Llewellyn, who played Kryten except for his first appearanceGed UK (talk) 21:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


Can't we keep the mouse and spacehopper pictures?

I know they're not relevant and they're difficult to defend but I liked them. They brightened up the place. 138.37.254.22 (talk) 15:21, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

You sound like an interior designer! Ged UK (talk) 15:50, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
It's a serious question nonetheless. For all their eccentricity, I miss them. 138.37.254.22 (talk) 16:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
OK, serious answer: I think you've answered your own question. THey're not relevant to the article and don't add anything encyclopedic to it. Whilst they would make a fanpage more interesting to look at, here they just draw attention to themselves and away from the point of the article, which is the show Ged UK (talk) 16:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I understand this, which is why I asked. However, it would be nice to have them back. They were doing no harm. 90.195.137.153 (talk) 17:03, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Tongue Tied

In the Bodysnatcher documentary for series 2, people speak of "what Craig and Danny did" with Tongue Tied, as opposed to what they were initially given by Howard Goodall. The impression I get is that Craig and Danny went off with the demo and made the music different somehow (making it more "groovy" by some accounts), but can anyone be more specific about their contribution to this? I was unaware of this prior to the "It's Cold Outside" documentary and do not know where else this information can be found. Something interesting for the wiki article maybe? 86.133.245.210 (talk) 23:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Probably not suitable for the main article, as it doesn't inform the nature or content of the show and would only make things even longer. But you can hear Howard Goodall's original demo on the Bodysnatcher DVD, which gives a strong idea of how the style f the final version differed from what he intended. To hear Howard's side of the story, check out the Series VI DVD documentary 'Settling the Score'. The gist is that Howard was going for a 'Diana Ross/Chain Reaction' style, where Danny and Craig wanted to do something more modern sounding. 'Modern', that is, for 1988... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.203.75.225 (talk) 10:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
"Information not promotion" I suppose that's called Andrew? Heh, like it. 86.133.163.84 (talk) 20:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Good points. Is there any information anywhere about the way in which Craig and Danny were even *granted* any influence on this though? At this time Doug and Rob had to limit their response to the show as writers to a couple of questions or suggestions like "more colour to the set please". And yet Craig and Danny, naughty actors who kept turning up late, were able to alter one of Goodall's compositions, not beyond recognition but still to some reasonable extent. It just seems odd to me that this wasn't addressed before the "It's Cold Outside" docco, that's all, and then frustratingly briefly. And it seems the kind of thing that Red Dwarf fans would normally be leaping over themselves to discuss this long after a DVD release. 194.66.226.95 (talk) 16:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Nobody cares about this. You're welcome!!81.157.222.217 (talk) 16:57, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Peer review?

The article has gone through a lot of changes in the past couple of months. References added, sections trimmed down and cleaned up. I think it should be put through a Peer Review. What do other editors think? -- Nreive (talk) 15:31, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It's definately time Ged UK (talk) 15:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
What does it involve? 138.37.254.22 (talk) 16:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
see Wikipedia:Peer review for more info Ged UK (talk) 16:41, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Imagine having the time to read all that. 90.195.137.153 (talk) 17:04, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Well someone obviously had the time to read through larger FAs like The Simpsons, Doctor Who, Blade Runner, Halloween and many more... I admit that the article can go on a bit, but that's what the Peer review is for - to advise on what is working and what is not. --Nreive (talk) 08:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)