Talk:Ray Bourque

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[edit] Changing article title

Was there any discussion about moving the article? Just wondering :-) Flibirigit 06:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Not a scrap of it, and I'm astonished that it was done in the first place. I've reverted the changes. RGTraynor 07:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language variations

Djsasso says in his most recent edit summary "(To quote from WP:ENGVAR Use terminology that subjects use for themselves whenever this is possible. Playing for team Canada is most definately him indentifying himself as that.)" Quite aside from that he is quoting WP:ID, not WP:ENGVAR, Bourque has lived almost as many years in the United States as he played games for Canada internationally. That being said, this is just the sort of circumstance for which the rule about the language variant in which the article was first written governing was created. That is en-US, which was the case for at least the first two years the article existed, encompassing over a hundred edits, including a few by Djsasso himself.  RGTraynor  08:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

And which is exactly why it was decided to go with the variant matching either their birth place or the place they played internationally for, so that there wouldn't have to be judgement calls. There are a few guidelines that would go to support one side of the arguement and then the one you quote to argue your side. I started quoting two different guidelines but they wouldn't fit and I accidentally deleted the wrong link. The part of WP:ENGVAR I was intending to quote was An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation uses the appropriate variety of English for that nation. Ray is best known as Canadian hockey player. And to go a bit further the game of hockey itself is best identified with Canada due to having been invented there. It's positions would have used that version of spelling because that is where it was invented. -Djsasso (talk) 15:06, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Bourque is clearly identified as Canadian. Whereas Mike Baumgartner and Brian Leetch would clearly be American. Flibirigit (talk) 17:50, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Err ... excuse me; when and where was this decided? The only consensus on the birthplace/nationality front was on the issue of identifying the nation of the player ("Slovakian," "Russian"), not in determining the language variant in which an article was written. WP:ENGVAR is tolerably clear, and cannot be trumped by our private arrangements even if we had clearly done so in this case, which we have not. Your position would have the somewhat absurd (and completely POV-driven) concept that all hockey articles must be written in en-ca.  RGTraynor  19:31, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
I have never said that all articles should be written in Canadian English. Go have a look at the Mike Baumgartner history and see which editor changed it to American English, from the Canadian variant. I would gladly change any American players to the US preferences. Flibirigit (talk) 19:48, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Take a look in the talk pages of the project. There was a clear idea that we go by country of birth for the spelling. It was rehased a couple of times even for the issue of spelling which were seperate debates from the nationality front. I am not saying all hockey articles should be in Canadian english, I am just pointing out that there are more than a few reasons why it is accurate for Ray Bourque. American born players, American English. Canadian born players Canadian English. WP:ENGVAR is tolerably clear that you use the form of English that is most identified with the subject. So stop trying to argue that ENGVAR is the reason you are right. ENGVAR actually works for both sides of the issue, which is why the compromise of birth place was mentioned. -Djsasso (talk) 20:34, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
I've been following the talk pages of the project for years, thanks, and there has never been a consensus (nor scarcely any mention before now) that this concept should apply to the language in which articles should be written; feel free to link to the archives saying so. ENGVAR is the reason I am right because it is the rule that whenever there is a legitimate dispute over versions, the article should be in the variant used by the creator / first major contributor. This article was, for several years, written exclusively in en-us.  RGTraynor  22:06, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
the variety chosen by the first major contributor to the article should be used, unless there is reason to change it on the basis of strong national ties to the topic Notice the unless that is there? Ray has strong national ties to Canada, through playing for Canada and being born there. -Djsasso (talk) 01:24, 1 March 2008 (UTC)