Talk:Quebec

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Contents 1 The 2 See Also section 3 Changes to lead 3.1 Eastern Canada vs. Central Canada 4 People from Quebec are called...? 5 city names 6 Quebec is a nation 7 Moved from User talk:Orangemarlin

[edit] The

Per WP:HEAD, the word "the" should be avoided in section and sub-section headings. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  12:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] See Also section

Anybody else feel that this section is excessively large with many items that could be moved to Lists of Quebec-related topics? Vrac (talk) 21:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

It does appear to be just a little large. A couple really don't belong there or should be moved to Lists of Quebec-related topics. -Royalguard11(T·R!) 00:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Changes to lead

I'd like to move the sentence on English-speaking Quebecers from the first to the fourth paragraph, while adding some additional information. I think this improves the flow of the lead sentence, adds pertinent and more detailed information about the status and location English speaking Quebecers, and puts it in the context of Quebec's minority populations (i.e. Aboriginals, allophones).

Also, Quebec is in "central Canada", which is in "the eastern part of Canada". It is not in the central part of Canada. A person not familiar with the peculiarities of Canadian geography might be confused by this.

It's because Québec along with Ontario were the first to be part of Canada. [1] It's ironic how Québec haven't yet officialised it's part. [2] --DynV (talk) 01:50, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's what the two paragraphs would look like.

• Quebec (pronounced /kwɨˈbɛk/ or /kəˈbɛk/), in French, Québec (/kebɛk/ (help·info)^[1]) is a province in the eastern part of Canada. It is the only Canadian province with a predominantly French-speaking population, and the only one whose sole official language is French. Other elements of French tradition, such as the system of civil law, also remain strong in Quebec.

• Quebec is Canada's largest province by area and its second-largest administrative division; only the territory of Nunavut is larger. It is the second most populated province, behind Ontario. Most of its inhabitants live along or close to the banks of the Saint Lawrence River. English-speaking communities and English-language institutions are concentrated in Montreal but significantly present in the Outaouais, Quebec City, the Eastern Townships, and Gaspé regions. The central and northern portion of the province is sparsely populated and inhabited primarily by Aboriginal peoples.

--soulscanner (talk) 21:53, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm making these changes, as no one seems to object. Feel free to revert to the previous version if you feel this needs to discussed more; I'll respect the consensus on this. The old version is okay, and by no means compromises the neutrality of this page. --soulscanner (talk) 16:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Eastern Canada vs. Central Canada

We need to figure out what to do about this one in the first sentence, as neither term is completely accurate. The grouping of "Central Canada" has much more historical and political meaning than a grouping of Central Canada with the Atlantic Provinces. Nevertheless, as you point out, the term might confuse people given that the province is physically located in the Eastern half of the country. What we need is a very concise way of saying that it is in the political and sociological region of Central Canada while being in geographic East. Whatever we do, the articles on both regions should probably be linked somewhere. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 18:45, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Canada doesn't really have an east-west divide. It's more like west of Ontario is the "west", Ontario and Quebec are "central" and the maritimes are the "east" (although then they're Quebec's Eastern Townships too). Although, those less familiar with Canada might just separate it into east-west, and obviously Quebec falls in the east geographically. Maybe we could do a footnote like we did for the name? Something like

Quebec is located in the Eastern half of Canada, but is historically and politically considered to be part of Central Canada

-Royalguard11(T·R!) 23:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Funny, as a resident of the province of Quebec, I've always heard it said here that Quebec was in Eastern Canada. I hardly ever heard of Central Canada. However, since this is a geography article, shouldn't the eastern geographical location be the prominent consideration?--Ramdrake (talk) 00:25, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

As a native born Quebecer, I've most often heard Central Canada. I agree with arctic.gnome on this, and Royalguard's proposal. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 05:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed also with Arctic Gnome that we should specify that it's Eastern in geography, but Central in politics, though like Ramdrake, I've never heard of "Central Canada" despite being Québécois myself. CielProfond (talk) 02:54, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Speak to any Atlantic Canadian, and you'll hear it. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Just a musing: is it possible that the cause of these different perceptions might be that "Central Canada" is use more in English than in French? (I'll volunteer that I almost always listen to French-language news).--Ramdrake (talk) 12:09, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Might be. I did a quick search of CBC (en) of 'quebec "central canada" ', first result was the winter storm from March titled Monster storm in Central Canada moves to Maritimes. Quebec is implied to be in Central Canada. When I search 'quebec "eastern canada" ', got the ice storm of '98 titled Ice storms continue in Quebec and eastern Canada, implying that Quebec is not part of Eastern Canada. So it might just be an english thing. -Royalguard11(T·R!) 19:54, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't say Quebec belongs to eastern Canada. Ontario and Quebec definitely form central Canada. On the other hand, I did find this article referring to Montreal as being in eastern Canada. If we look hard enough we might even find American writers referring to Quebec being in the east. I've actually heard Britons refer to Toronto and Montreal as being on the "east coast"! Joeldl (talk) 02:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) I've added the line as a footnote. If you don't like the wording, feel free to change it. -Royalguard11(T·R!) 01:29, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi everyone, I added that Quebec was a nation at the beginning of this article. Thank you ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.208.44.25 (talk) 21:00, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] People from Quebec are called...?

Quebecians? That does not sound right... Ehccheehcche (talk) 01:18, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, we could say Quebecois (with an accent in there somewhere), but then we'd have to re-open the debate on whether they are a cultural nation or a political nation, and whether or not the term applies to everyone in Quebec or just to Francophones. I think Quebecers could work without provoking a sovereigntist uprising. -Royalguard11(T·R!) 04:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

They're called Québecois for both Vernacular and Nation specific and Quebecers to be more geo-politically inclusive. --DynV (talk) 23:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I am from Quebec and I use only the word Quebecer. When used in English, Québécois usually implies reference to French-speaking Quebecers. Joeldl (talk) 02:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] city names

Québec vernacular city names NEED accents when appropriate. If this seem insufficient, you may add a standardized version in parenthesis with the first occurrence.

How would you feel if I made an article about your hometown in a language not officially used in it and I'd modified its name to be more appropriate in that language ? I don't know about you but my name can be translated and I dislike it when people do that. --DynV (talk) 22:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Certain cities in Quebec (and the province itself) have had their names rendered a certain way in English for centuries. Montreal and Quebec (City) do not have accents because, foremost, English-speakers have been writing them without accents for a very long time. Their pronunciations are also markedly different from how they're rendered in French. It's the same with other foreign cities like Rome, Moscow, Athens, etc.

The analogy also extends to cities and places with English names rendered in French, such as Londres, Philadelphie, Floride, Californie, etc. G. Csikos, 1 June 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.239.83.153 (talk) 21:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quebec is a nation

Hi. Quebec is a nation, and you have to write it at the beginning. There is a canadian bias in this article and it should minimized. Quebec is a nation and its language is french. The other anglophones are canadians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.208.44.25 (talk) 23:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

And what you are saying is that we should write the article from a complete Quebec bias. The Quebecois are a nation (the people the last time I checked, wether that means French or anyone in Quebec is unknown because it wasn't specified). We've already fought over the lead and this is what we decided. -Royalguard11(T·R!) 03:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Moved from User talk:Orangemarlin

I edited the page on Québec without logging in. You may have a look at the already established page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Quebecers to find sufficient backing to my writing.

Besides, the federal government was advertising on the SRC channel about it, in the nineties, as part of a series on the history of Canada.

I wonder what it is that makes it ok to have several large paragraphs without footnotes in that article and then revert a one-line addition that is a well-known fact in Québec and for which references are plenty. I could provide many references for the same fact, but I don't understand what makes it worthwhile to cite it, let alone necessary. I also don't understand why this gets reverted whereas other items that are considered defective just get tagged with «citation needed».

I'm not trying to bypass the procedure, I just want to understand it and figure out when it is that it applies and when it is that it doesn't.

Matju2 (talk) 09:23, 8 June 2008 (UTC) matju2 2008.06.08

Please don't discuss articles on my talk page. It should be discussed on the article's discussion page. Second, you cannot refer to Wikipedia articles as your source. Source what you wrote, it's not the readers job to search through hundreds of articles to find support for your statements. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 14:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)