Talk:Pomerelia

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	This page is affected by the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. The following rules apply in the case of disputes:
For Gdańsk, use the name Danzig between 1308 and 1945 For Gdańsk, use the name Gdańsk before 1308 and after 1945 In biographies of clearly German persons, the name should be used in the form Danzig (Gdańsk) and later Danzig exclusively In biographies of clearly Polish persons, the name should be used in the form Gdańsk (Danzig) and later Gdańsk exclusively. For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig). An English language reference that primarily uses this name should be provided on the talk page if a dispute arises. Reverts to conform with community consensus are excluded from the 3RR rule. Only the place names can be reverted exempt from the 3RR rule according to the outcome of this vote, additional changes fall again under the 3RR rule. Please use descriptive edit summaries. Persistent reverts against community consensus despite multiple warnings may be dealt with according to the rules in Wikipedia:Dealing with vandalism. In case of doubt, assume good faith and do not bite newcomers. The detailed vote results and the vote itself can be found on Talk:Gdansk/Vote. This vote has ended; please do not vote anymore. Comments and discussions can be added to Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion anytime. This template {{Template:Gdansk-Vote-Notice}} can be added on the talk page of affected articles if necessary.

This page is affected by the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote.
The following rules apply in the case of disputes:

For Gdańsk, use the name Danzig between 1308 and 1945
For Gdańsk, use the name Gdańsk before 1308 and after 1945
In biographies of clearly German persons, the name should be used in the form Danzig (Gdańsk) and later Danzig exclusively
In biographies of clearly Polish persons, the name should be used in the form Gdańsk (Danzig) and later Gdańsk exclusively.
For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig). An English language reference that primarily uses this name should be provided on the talk page if a dispute arises.
Reverts to conform with community consensus are excluded from the 3RR rule. Only the place names can be reverted exempt from the 3RR rule according to the outcome of this vote, additional changes fall again under the 3RR rule. Please use descriptive edit summaries.
Persistent reverts against community consensus despite multiple warnings may be dealt with according to the rules in Wikipedia:Dealing with vandalism. In case of doubt, assume good faith and do not bite newcomers.

The detailed vote results and the vote itself can be found on Talk:Gdansk/Vote. This vote has ended; please do not vote anymore. Comments and discussions can be added to Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion anytime. This template {{Template:Gdansk-Vote-Notice}} can be added on the talk page of affected articles if necessary.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. -GTBacchus^(talk) 03:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

1 Requested move
2 Gdańsk Pomerania and Pomeralia

[edit] Requested move

Eastern Pomerania → Pomerelia

Pomerelia is the correct name for the territory per WP:NC(GN) proposals. In English, eastern Pomerania is not always the same as Pomerelia, the subject of this article. The term “eastern Pomerania” is a descriptive that is better served by using the actual name of the territory, Pomerelia. (C.f. Pomesania) This was the named used by the Duchy of Pomerelia as seen in online references below. The term “eastern Pomerania” is ambiguous and can refer to the eastern part of the Duchy of Pomerania (i.e., Farther Pomerania) whereas Pomerelia refers to the area of subject in this article as seen in these maps (from Muir):

Image:Pomerania&WestPrussiaMap.jpg Image:PomereliaMap.jpg

Pomerelia is marked as such on the following maps:

Periodical Historical Atlas
Historical Atlas by William R. Shepherd
Muir’s Historical Atlas: Medieval and Modern. Tenth edition. 1964.

Pomerelia is noted in the following:

In addition to online sources, a search of print materials on academic search engines such as JSTOR or ABC-Clio Historical Abstracts shows “eastern Pomerania” usually used as a descriptive (with a lower case “e”) while Pomerelia is used on several occasions to describe both the duchy and the region and is the term used in the translation of Polish and German article titles (ABC-Clio). In many cases “eastern Pomerania” does not refer to Pomerelia but to the eastern part of the Duchy of Pomerania. Google Books searches (groan!) of Eastern Pomerania and Pomerelia reveal similar results.

As the Columbia Encyclopedia article on Pomerania notes, Pomerania “was split into two principalities. Pomerelia, as E Pomerania came to be known, became independent in 1227, was annexed to Poland in 1294, and was taken in 1308-9 by the Teutonic Knights , who incorporated it into their domain in East Prussia. The histories of Pomerania and Pomerelia after 1308 must be traced separately.”

- AjaxSmack 18:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

Support as nominee. - AjaxSmack 18:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Support. This article is primarily about the historical state (also spelled "Pomerellia"). "Eastern Pomerania" can refer to Pomerelia, Hinterpommern, etc. Olessi 00:51, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

If this is renamed, eastern Pomerania should be turned into a dab page then. 132.205.44.134 22:42, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Move completed - dab needed?

Per the comment in the Discussion section above, Eastern Pomerania should probably be a dab page now. Perhaps someone more knowledgable than I could go ahead and do that? I've taken care of the deletion and move, which is the only part that required admin tools. -GTBacchus^(talk) 03:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. - AjaxSmack 07:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gdańsk Pomerania and Pomeralia

Actually, these are two different things, confused now in a single article: Gdańsk Pomerania is a contemporary geographical region of Poland, while Pomeralia is a historical region. The recent rename only signifies this confusion. --Lysy^talk 22:34, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Do they have any other significant difference than the time? If they are approximately the same area, and the population basis has not significantly changed in a radical change, they should presumably be the one and same article. After all, all sorts of provonces have articles with their "history" section there. Even Greece is one article, having a today country and its history 2500 years ago. Shilkanni 01:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Pomerelia is a distinct historical region and duchy, while Gdańsk Pomerania is a more recent term for a larger area encompassing Pomerelia, Culmerland, Pomesania, etc. Olessi 17:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Pomerelia

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[edit] Requested move

[edit] Survey

[edit] Discussion

[edit] Move completed - dab needed?

[edit] Gdańsk Pomerania and Pomeralia

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