Talk:Plantation of Ulster

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain.

Contents

[edit] Copyright infringement?

Just passing through and noticed some familiar sentences.

For example, compare "Because of political uncertainty in Ireland, and the risk of attack by the dispossessed Irish, the undertakers had difficulty attracting settlers (especially from England). This meant that they were forced to keep Irish tenants, destroying the original plan of segregation between settlers and natives. " (Paragraph 2 of 'The Plantation in Operation')

with the first part of paragraph 4 of

http://www.rootsweb.com/~nirfer2/Ulster_Plantation.htm

and "In the 1630s many Scots went home after King Charles I of England forced the Prayer Book of the Church of England on the Church of Ireland, thus compelling the Presbyterian Scots to change their form of worship. In 1638, an oath was imposed on the Scots in Ulster, 'The Black Oath', binding them on no account to take up arms against the King." (Paragraph 2 of 'The Wars of the Three Kingdoms and Ulster Plantation')

with some of paragraph 6 of the same page.


I have no idea who came first and since each page has additional information that the other doesn't, it seems likely that one author of one page did a poor job of paraphrasing some content from the other page. Anyone have an opinion or feel like re-writing the identical sections so that Wikipedia ensures it is taking the high road? Tre1234 08:46, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Legacy

Actually Gerry Adams might not be of Planter origin, considering a huge number of Irish Gaelic names were Anglicised due to British laws designed to stamp out Irish culture, and to the fact thatpeople who became English speakers would often change their surnames. Adams may originally have been "McAdam".

[edit] plantation of Ulster

It is interesting that while the figure of 4000 planters killed in the rising of 1641 is often quoted it is rarely mentioned that the plantation exercise involved the calculated slaughter of an estimated 30000 plus native irish ,men women and children, and subsequently under the Cromwellian " Hell or to Connaught "campaign thousands more were murdered and up to 60000 native Irish hunteddown by "Man catchers" to provide white slaves to be sold for thye sugar plantations and brothels of the Barbados not to mention the thousands others transported as indentured servants. The political mindset of Ulster Protestants is still that they civilised the inferior native Irish. Little wonder the native Irish continue to rise in rebellion on a regular basis in the province of Ulster.81.131.16.200 06:13, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, if you follow some of the links to historical articles, you will find that the atrocitires of all sides in the 1640s are well covered. See Irish Rebellion of 1641, Irish Confederate Wars and Cromwellian conquest of Ireland.

However, there was no "calculated slaughter" before the plantion. It is true that the province was heavily de-populated by the Nine Years War (Ireland), where the English used scorched earth tactics, but no planned massacre. Cromwell's actions, as I have said are covered in the relevant articles. Don't know where you're getting your figures from though, apparently you know better than the specialist historicans working in the area? Jdorney 16:18, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

It was just like north America, they murdered to get the land. Over a number of years thousand's of native Irish were killed, that's the plain and simple fact of the matter. (but they didn't kill us all, that was their biggest mistake) Culnacreann 21:59, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

  • The Ulster Plantation was very different from the settlement of North America. In general the native Irish population were not driven from their lands and they were certainly not massacred! In America the natives were also decimated by European diseases, something that (for obvious reasons) never occured in Ulster.
  • Historians from A.T.Q. Stewart to Jonathan Bardon have all stressed the fact that the Irish remained in possession (but not ownership) of their land and the natives and the settlers actually lived in close proximity to eachother.
  • All in all I think this Wikipedia article is very fair and balanced.

[edit] Protestant Scottish Highlanders in Ulster

Did any Protestant Scottish Highlanders settle in Ulster? Where has it been stated that Protestant Scottish Highlanders settled in Ulster? I thought Ulster was planted exclusively by English and Lowland Scot settlers.

In the initial plantation in 1610 it was specified that the settlers had to be English speaking and Protestant, but in the decades that followed, many thousands more immigrants arrived from Scotland, many of whom were Gaelic speaking Highlanders. Not all of the Scots were Protestants either, the MacDonnell or MacDonald clan were Catholics and settled extensively in the north of county Antrim.

Jdorney 23:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for the delayed response. Thank you very much for typing up this answer for me. It is very informative, enlightening and interesting.

This topic is quite interesting, I wonder how the native Irish responded to the Catholic highlanders moving to Ulster as opposed to the Protestant lowland Scots and English. -CM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.17.34 (talk) 01:36, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rebels?

Surely the Irish,who were defending their land against an English invasion,can't be called rebels,they were defending not rebelling.If there is no objection I'll delete the words rebels.--Jack forbes (talk) 14:29, 5 March 2008 (UTC) ==Women In American colonies== Actually there were a large number ofjeanne (talk) 12:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC) white English females in the English North American settlements as evidenced by the small amount of Native American DNA found in modern white Americans unlike the Mexicans and other Latin Americans whose maternal DNA shows a significant Indian admixture.