Talk:PlaneShift (video game)/Archive 1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

1 Category
2 Special features and idea
3 Copyvio, links to races (e.g., Enkidukai)
4 Stats please
5 Question...
6 Notability?
7 Fair use rationale for Image:ArealPlaza.JPG
8 NPOV dispute
9 Screenshot gallery
10 Lists
11 Release Date
12 Platform
13 Free Software
14 Notability
15 Sources
16 Vandalizing
17 Roleplay

Special features and idea

I think it would be worth to mention PlaneShift's special ideas and features ...e.g type-talking (instead of the now "classic" click-through) with NPC's in order to keep the world more coherent, heavily encouraged role-playing, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.61.66.55 (talk • contribs)

Copyvio, links to races (e.g., Enkidukai)

I've just removed nearly all the content regarding Yliakum from the article, as it was mostly a word-for-word copy (albeit a somewhat rearranged one) from the official Player Guide's Section 3.2. Overview of the Known World. Most of this content was first added to the article through a merge[1] from the old Yliakum article. According to Chapter 5. License of the Player Guide, This license (the PlaneShift Content License) is applied to all artwork and texts in this web site and is applied to all art/models/music/texts/names/setting/... present in the game. Since the PlaneShift Content License prevents copying, modifying, and creating derivative works from content applied to it, content directly from the Player Guide or other documentation from the PlaneShift website cannot be used in Wikipedia. If I've been overzealous and accidentally removed original content from the article that does not violate copyright, please restore it.

I've also removed wikilinks to the races of Yliakum, excluding those that have a presence outside PlaneShift. I think that, at least in the game's current pre-alpha state, there isn't enough information for each race to warrant its own article, and that the creation of such articles shouldn't be encouraged. Any (non-copyvio) material on the races should be added in the Races section of the current article. If it gets to the point where content on the races gets too large, we can always split it off info a Races of PlaneShift article in the future. (ed: Not seeing any objections, I went ahead and merged Enkidukai into the races section. — 11:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)) ~~Accordingly, I'm proposing that Enkidukai be merged into the current section on races. If there's no objection, the merge should be simple, then we can remove the link to Enkidukai from the article.~~ — Jeff | (talk) | 11:47, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

No, I'm personally glad you did this. There was a thread by the user who "created" the Yliakum article in the official Planeshift forums and he was not received very well. It was mainly a hair-brained attempt at getting attention combined with a lack of understanding of Wikipedia. I didn't know what to do with the article, so I simply stuck a merge tag on it and tried to throw in some inter-wiki links. The main reason I didn't get rid of the problematic text all together was to prevent hurt feelings (and that's no reason to leave a copyright violation in place!) Talad, the creator of Planeshift, did not comment, so I'm unsure how he felt about possible copyright violations.

This was needed for quite a while. Indi^talk 18:43, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I would like to apologise for that... I was immature back then :( Pure inuyasha 23:32, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Luca Pancallo comments on the text below: Hi, the license used in PlaneShift was meant to protect our work from copy/modification/usage in other software products. For sure there is no problem in having the content (in terms of screenshots, galleries or text) copied here in wikipedia. Wikipedia is just documenting/clarifying what's present on the web and I see no potential threat in this.

Stats please

I came to the wikipedia entry looking for stats such as registered players, and number of players during peak hours etc, I didn't find them. They shouldn't be too hard to find should they. --165.155.128.132 20:55, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

You're right of course; though you would be surprised how hard this information can be to find at times, unless the game itself puts them to a prominent place. =) I can't find server stats anywhere on the site. Maybe someone who plays the game should post about this to their forums. I don't have the time and patience to register a forum account for a game that I've tried playing three times total... --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 12:28, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, so the forums are pretty impressive (>19000 members), and since the actual player count of any game is guesstimatable out of hat as (forum_members * 10), I think the notability is not a problem. Now all we need is hard data! Stats, anyone? --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 19:39, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

They do have statistics on web! Well I'll be damned, Google is ocassionally helpful. I suppose that takes care of the notability questions and all. =) --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 20:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I think they added stats.The Ronin 19:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Question...

Does this game have a language filter? If so, that would be really good. Because if it doesn't, my mom might not let me play... Please reply. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dragonexpert19 (talk • contribs) 21:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

You should probably ask on their forums. http://www.hydlaa.com/smf/ Squids_and_Chips 22:20, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Notability?

Sure the "few references" tag should be on here, but it's difficult to see how PlaneShift's notability is in doubt. It's a very large project which has been around for years and attracted thousands of active users. This article is full of fancruft and OR but the subject itself is not the problem, the treatment of the subject is.

I think the NN tag ought to be removed.

Eleland 18:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Definitely notable. However, I am unable to find any "non-trivial" sources for this claim - perhaps someone with Google-fu skills superior to mine (not hard) would be able to find some? --Pyreforge 13:51, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

http://www.planeshift.it/pix/PSinPCgamer_small.jpg, october 2001 pcgamer uk 70.48.58.206 00:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC) steuben

Excellent! Now to remove that offensive tag... --Pyreforge 07:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I still call the notability of the game into question. What makes this game unique, and who said so? So what, it is a video game. There are many like it.... EvanCarroll 06:19, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ArealPlaza.JPG

Image:ArealPlaza.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 19:35, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

NPOV dispute

The article has been repeatedly edited to present Planeshift in the best positive light. Submissions that others have made have been deleted if they talk about the existence of bugs in the game or the game's community. That is to say, someone is deleting any submission that suggests something even remotely negative about the game. The result is a very biased article that is highly commercial in nature. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dl42 (talk • contribs) 05:49, 10 June 2007 (UTC).

Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. Also, there's WP:BLP to contend with. Tuxide 05:54, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Balatant advertising is considered spam and should be deleted as such. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dl42 (talk • contribs) 06:00, 10 June 2007 (UTC).

Tuxide is using a bot to prevent ANY changes that ANYONE makes. DL42 06:04, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Check out his profile. He's using VandalProof 2.0. Planeshift deserves an article, but the current one will probably be deleted since it's an advertisement / spam. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dl42 (talk • contribs) 06:18, 10 June 2007 (UTC).

Well the "criticism" section is extremely weak and rather POV; it implies that criticism of the licensing system is "confusion". And the statement that "the vast majority of contributors agree to the necessity of the license" is gobbledygook, obviously ALL of the contributors agreed to the license, the question is how many people are not contributing because they don't agree with the license. Eleland 21:15, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I've made a few changes to that section that should hopefully tone down some of the POV. (I agree that dismissing criticism as being based on "confusion" was particularly unfortunate.) On a different note, I'm wondering where it is that this article reads specifically like an advert. I think there's some substance to the notion that it isn't as neutral as it perhaps ought to be, but we do already have that NPOV banner at the top. If the argument is just that the article reads as being from a positive POV, I think that's covered adequately by the NPOV notice and so we don't need the advert template on top of that. If that's the case, anyone mind if the advert notice were removed to decrease article clutter? — JeffSmith | (talk) | 22:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Fine by me, I don't see any reason mentioned on this talk page why {{advert}} was inserted in the first place...until someone does find a valid reason. The one who added it was complaining about getting banned from their forums or something. I would probably reduce the number of external links though, if anything else. Tuxide 00:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Luca Pancallo comments on the text below: What I can say is that the creation of this article and editing has been done mainly by independent people and not the PlaneShift team itself (at least to my knowledge). If the community of players tries to present the game in a good way, I don't see problems, maybe they like it? :) In terms of being presented as a commercial, this is a weak point because the game is completely free of charge, so there is no gain in having it presented as commercial, none is making money out of it.

Justifying commercial tendencies of an article with avid fans and monetary issues are weak points as well. If the fans like the game they shouldn't cause the article about the game to have one notice and two warnings by their own actions alone. The warnings are there due to unrestrained enthusiasm, not because some meanie is being mean. As for the game being gratis that really doesn't change anything. Just like when someone violates copyrights, he still violated them even if he releases the violation free of charge. In the same way, a gratis product can have adverts and an article that calls people to try it is unencyclopedic. Ghost Musters 03:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC) — Ghost Musters (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I am removing the {{advert}} and {{npov}} templates. The person who added them obviously has a WP:COI [2], [3], etc. and as per the above discussion, nobody else has found a valid reason to keep them. My only argument is the number of external links, but there's another template for that which could be used, or we could just easily clean it up. Leave them off unless something else comes up. Regards, Tuxide 09:28, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I've cut down on the number of external links, but I don't think I'm done with them yet. Many articles about MMORPGs have links to official websites in other languages, but I don't know how "official" the German website is. If a link is used as a reference (such as the user manual), then it should be ref'd instead. Tuxide 10:34, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Screenshot gallery

I've removed the gallery of game screenshots from the article. Consisting of non-free in-game artwork, the inclusion of such a screenshot gallery was not compatible with Wikipedia's position on non-free content. The Significance criterion of the non-free content criteria specifically identifies the use of non-free decorative galleries as unacceptable.

A case could be made that a non-free screenshot might prove useful for illustrating the sort of artwork and interface elements present in the game. That's why I've left the screenshot of the Enki fighting a clacker in the article. I chose this image in particular because it illustrates a playable character, a non-playable character/creature, the game's command/action interfaces, and the game's presentation of player stats. Of course, if someone else thinks one of the other screenshots would work better for this, that's fine. The other screenshots (1, 2, 3) will probably be deleted as unused non-free content in the near future. — JeffSmith | (talk) | 21:31, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

-- Just as a sidenote, all photos including the one that remains are significantly out of date. - dl42

Luca Pancallo comments on the text below: I disagree on this point completely, in wikipedia there are tons of images taken from games/produts/movies just to document better what the article is discussing about. For this reason I don't see why PlaneShift article should be spoiled of images while there are tons others in wikipedia.

Wikipedia:Image use policy: Images which are listed as for non-commercial use only, by permission, or which restrict derivatives are unsuitable for Wikipedia and will be deleted on sight. Regardless, there's no reason why Planeshift would have four screenshots. World of Warcraft has three with only one of them actually showing the game, and it's enough. Ghost Musters 03:18, 17 July 2007 (UTC) — Ghost Musters (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

The dispute is over whether a gallery of nonfree images is appropriate, not whether nonfree images in general are. Screenshots of the game can be used under the fair use doctrine only if they are used in the context of critical commentary of PlaneShift. Thus, multiple screenshots can be used under the aforementioned condition, but a gallery that is only used for identification of PlaneShift is inappropriate. Tuxide 11:08, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

What I meant was that just because they are used with permission of the copyright holder doesn't mean they should be used. Ghost Musters 18:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Lists

Are the Races \ Monsters lists necessary? Ghost Musters 22:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, if no one objects I'll change it. I think there's no good reason why the monsters would be mentioned, and the races should probably all be written in a single paragraph. Ghost Musters 02:23, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I am marking the sections as {{list to prose (section)}} and the article as {{cleanup-laundry}}. Although I fully agree that the embedded lists should be converted to prose, I think it should state more than that the game has stock races. For example, Kran, Enkidukai, etc. are interesting. Tuxide 09:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

That can still be done in the format I used. You simply also mention the more unique races. Just because they're more interesting than dwarfs doesn't require a list, though. Also, I still believe the monsters list is unneeded. It shouldn't even be converted to a paragraph, there's nothing to mention about them. I just checked about ten articles of noteworthy MMORPGs and none of them mention monsters. Ghost Musters 18:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

By the way, these two lists together make up for more than half of the article. Don't you think a thinner article looks better than a list page? Ghost Musters 18:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

All of the good articles on MMORPGs mention monsters in prose (World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, RuneScape), yet in not as much detail. There are no featured articles on MMORPGs, but there are on other video games such as Final Fantasy VII and Half-Life 2, and they all mention monsters in prose, but not in detail. The general goal of Wikipedia is to make every article a featured article, so using one of these FAs or GAs as a template, and expanding on this general structure would be a good idea. Tuxide 01:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

How about "PlaneShift players may play any of a variety of races including humans, dwarfs, elves, but also ones which are unique to PlaneShift such as the Kran which are stone-based creatures and the Enkidukai which are felines. Although not all of them have 3D models they're all playable."? Is there any reason to go into further specific detail? Ghost Musters 17:41, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I just checked the articles you mentioned (although I already checked WoW and FF earlier when I said MMORPG articles don't mention monsters). Note how none of them (ignoring Half Life for a moment) actually have a section, paragraph, or list which talks about monsters. When they do mention monsters, it's either as a 'by the way' in a gameplay section or something similar, or about monsters which are notable in their own right as they are an important part of the plot. They don't describe and usually don't even name mobs, and when they describe a boss they just sum it up with three words. You should also notice how the sum of mob descriptions in each one of these articles comes up to miniscule proportions compared to the length of the article. In PlaneShift (computer game) the Creatures category makes up for somewhere between a fourth and a third of the article. That's also why when I checked WoW and FF earlier I thought they don't mention monsters - They don't have a category for monsters, because it's not important.

As for Half Life 2, PlaneShift (computer game) shouldn't aspire to be like Half Life 2, for the simple reason that it never will be like it. Planeshift is perhaps notable enough to have an article, but nowhere in the foreseeable future it is going to become notable enough to have an article with the span of the Half Life 2 article and with specific articles about each monster. And that's even without mentioning that each Half Life 2 monster has an article that is more well-made and detailed than PlaneShift (computer game). Ghost Musters 13:40, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the creatures list as it was written as a guide. Please refer to What Wikipedia is not for more information on this policy. SpigotMap 05:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Release Date

I don't believe the release date on this article to be true. Should the release date for AB not be there instead of the release date for CB? SpigotMap 19:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Platform

The Platform requirements for this may also need to be changed. As far as I know Planeshift is able to be ran on BSD and other Unix-Like/Unix-Derived Operating Systems. Maybe a simple "Cross-platform" should be used instead. Linux is not a broad term to describe all operating system other then Mac and Windows. SpigotMap 20:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Free Software

PlaneShift IS free software at least for the following reasons: 1) it's delivered to everyone for free, at no cost, with no ads, no spyware, no premium content. 2) it has ALL source code, client, server, web applications, updater, setup licensed as Open Source and under GPL, available for everyone to download. 3) it's made by a legally recognized non-profit organization —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.8.208.35 (talk) 12:30, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

First to state a bias: I hope this project dies. The first free open-source mmorpg should not be licensed as such. The open-source community looks at this whole thing as a joke, and it is. I object to the classifying as an "open source" game, or anything of the like. The freeness (in both senses) of the game can even be called into question because the the copyrights are owned by one entity, which can restructure at any time. The game is not free, only the unrelated engine, and the implementation of it ie, the client and server have any degree of freedom. To expand on my bias, because this game isn't noteworthy in any sense: it's dated, has an archaic business model, and is closed source, you have my vote to delete it entirely. Quake 3, is more open source, and it's free. EvanCarroll 21:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree. This game can not call itself open source. The only thing open source is what has to be, and started out open source, the engine. Even the engine is dated and unnotable. Unless some reliable sources pop up establishing notability, it will go to AfD. Spigot Map 22:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Notability

I have added the Notability tag now several days ago. Does anyone have a "claim to fame" for this software? The fanbase seems to think the game is very notabily, but that point is moot. Where are the major reviews for this game? I can find no reviews other then made by fans. No coverage in any kind of game sites. The article may as well be unsourced, as primary sources can not establish any type of notability. Any opposition before taking to AfD? Spigot Map 03:57, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I tried to prod it, I'm new at submitting articles for deletion. If you know of another way to raise the issue I will voice my opinion on this matter and push towards the deletion. EvanCarroll 06:20, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I plan on leaving it alone for about a week to see if anyone comes up with anything. The article has been here for almost 4 years now and notability still hasn't been established, I think it is probably about time for AfD. Spigot Map 11:20, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

http://www.planeshift.it/pix/PSinPCgamer_small.jpg, october 2001 pcgamer uk 70.48.58.206 00:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC) steuben 64.230.31.250 00:59, 24 October 2007 (UTC) steuben

That is some sort of fan mail. Notability takes significant coverage, not a small mention in a fan mail section. Spigot Map 01:08, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Agree on the lack of notability. Apart from its fanbase, the game really is unknown. 203.131.133.142 05:16, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. While I don't play it due to hardware issues, the game is certainly notable. Here are some links, if you need convincing.

http://linux.about.com/od/softgame/fr/fr_PlaneShift.htm
http://www.mmoginfo.com/pc/Planeshift/preview_19_1.html
http://news.mmosite.com/data/p/u/2006/03/24/194048044.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/news/gameID/30/showArticle/2636 <-links to an article that won't pull up for me
http://www.onrpg.com/games_articles/list/2/7
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/04/pre-e3-mmo-roundup/ <-list is alphabetically ordered
http://www.answers.com/topic/planeshift-computer-game <-a good, clear, and unbiased article, IMHO
http://www.crystalspace3d.org/main/Conference2006_Report <- Notes that two different panels were presented involving Planeshift. Also, a Q&A session was noted as "Luca was there as a representative of the biggest project using Crystal Space (PlaneShift)..." (emphasis mine)

Additionally, http://www.mininova.org/tor/544798 is a page that states "This is the wikipedia article which explains in more detail the mmorpg:" and directs to this article.
Finally, the PCGamer fanmail shows that, while they have not written an article on it, they found it intriguing enough to make sure their readers were made aware of it. Printed space in a magazine isn't cheap and every paragraph has to be worth including or else your just throwing money away. Pennies or less per copy, but do you want to lose a couple million pennies?

Overall, I see no reason for the deletion of the article. I believe it needs some work, but the idea of deletion is absolutely ludicrous. - Hectate 63.239.183.126 13:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Notability still has not been established in the articlespace. An editor insists on engaging in revert warring over this template which rightly belongs on this article. Please establish notability in the article as a no concensus AfD does not establish notability. Spigot Map 02:34, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

An additional reference is issue 20 of Tux Magazine, that can be downloaded here. Rune Kock 20:24, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

In my edit summary on [4], I linked to WP:CITE; I meant to link to WP:FN instead. Tuxide 23:33, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Page is still all primary sources, does the notability tag need to be re-added? Spigot Map 16:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Sources

So, can anyone add the magazine sources from the AfD to the article? Since I don't speak Italian or Spanish I can't do it, not to mention the fact that I've never played the game and know little about it anyway. Any volunteers? Miremare 23:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

i tagged them in in external links a day or so ago. Steuben.viscosa 00:21, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- It would be nice to know what they said. Is there a way to get them translated? Tuxide 01:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

For the Linux magazine, the sections are about:

What is MMORPG?
What Planeshift is
Who the player's character is/character creation
The world of Planeshift (Yliakum)
Fighting and clans (player guilds)
NPC Quests
Installing/downloading
Promising future/Of what may come to be

Below that, in the yellow box (with the rating of 7 in the red box? I don't know if that's a rating or not.), the good and the bad. And below that are the resources.

--Squids'and'Chips 01:07, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

\o/ babelfish Steuben.viscosa 01:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalizing

This page has been vandalized by a number of times by crappy detractors. They are continuously deleting information, or trying to post misleading comments that tries to put PlaneShift in a bad light. The encyclopedia is meant to detail facts, not personal opinions and surely is not a place for personal fights/flaming/trolling. Watch out for them. At the moment they are User:SpigotMap and, at a great minor degree, User:EvanCarroll. Take a few moment to look at their edits, the history speaks by itself. Watch out for their edits and do not trust them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.215.235 (talk) 02:39, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Issue will be brought to administrator's light. Complete lack of Civility. Spigot Map 03:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I think he's annoyed because you're not improving this article due to your strong bias against the subject, SpigotMap. Tuxide 04:17, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Didn't mean to undo his edit. Anyways, he can be annoyed all he wants, but he can't totally disregard wikipedia policy and/or be uncivil towards ANY editor for ANY reason. Spigot Map 06:21, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Nevertheless, always assume good faith, SpigotMap, don't bite the newcomers, and don't respond to such dickery by being a dick in return. Come to think of it, he is probably referring to this edit you made, for it was posted on the forums just recently. Tuxide 06:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Moved to bottom of talk page. Spigot Map 08:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The information I've posted is correct and is expanding the encyclopedia, what SpigotMap has done was to remove information or to negate evidence, like the fact PlaneShift has its own engine. In addition he is continuously adding sticky tags of notability, deletion, etc... this is not a good way to expand the wikipedia knowledge on a subject, when dozens of other wikipedian thinks the opposite and reverted his edits. In addition he flagged me as a person who removes info and reverts edit, while if you look at the history of the page you will see it's exactly the opposite. My effort here is to create a more comprehensive article on PlaneShift, but seems not everyone has the same objective. I think if you want to carry on your personal fight against PlaneShift wikipedia is not the right place. Let the people who work on the project give relevant information about it, and do some research before just deleting information from the page. by 87.2.215.235 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.215.235 (talk • contribs)

Maybe you don't understand. EVERYTHING you add to this encyclopedia MUST be sourced. Also ANYTHING you add can and will be edited by anyone. You do not have to know anything about a subject to edit the article because a good article is sourced. ANYTHING you add that is not sourced is original research which can and will be deleted if a source can not be found. Spigot Map 10:25, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

All the info is properly sourced, I've seen tons of reference links added and then removed by the page by you or other editors, I see you are in a fight for this page, and you try to delete every bit just claiming it's unsourced. I don't think this is the proper way to contribute to an encyclopedia. Anyway I believe the information posted is correct and I will try to provide sources where possible. by 87.2.215.235 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.215.235 (talk • contribs)

Roleplay

Seems that user SpigotMap did not read or check the info present on http://www.planeshift.it/roleplay.html and is continuosuly removing information from the PlaneShift page about roleplay. His intentions are pretty clear to me, but anyway let's see what other editors has to say. Do you think PlaneShift has a roleplay focus? If yes, can you link here people or other sources speaking about it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.215.235 (talk) 10:39, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It does not matter what editors or players think. Do you have a secondary source saying Planeshift's roleplay and characters are unique or somewhat different? Also, new talk sections go at the bottom of the page. Spigot Map 10:43, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion the secondary sources are all the players who speak about it, and you have an extensive coverage of that in the planeshift forums, which are not written by planeshift developers, but by thousands of planeshift players. Here is my list:

PlaneShift has a forum dedicated to roleplaying with thousands of posts, at the moment they are 10286. You can find it here: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?board=15.0
PlaneShift has a number of extensive features for roleplay, like emotes, ability to create your own books, ability for GMs to run events and impersonate other characters. Very recently added the feature to guard the items you drop on the ground, so players can lay on carpets, lay food in front of them while eating, etc... without the problem of other players stealing it.
Planeshift GMs team enforce roleplay by asking people to use brackets [] for OOC (Out of Character) discussions.
Planeshift GMs team runs live events to enrich the roleplay aspects of the game.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.215.235 (talk) 10:39, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, forum sources are completely out of the question. A secondary (and most important to an article) source is one written by an established, reliable source, which is a known newspaper, TV, magazine, game site, etc, editor who is known and notable. Spigot Map 10:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

An example:

http://www.mmhell.com/news/6/1110.html

Uh, all that looks like is some fiction gibberish. Where does it say anything about unique roleplay, or that the game relies on heavy roleplay? And who wrote it? Spigot Map 11:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

You asked for a gaming magazine, and I got one. Has been written by the an editor of that magazine. The brief article lists one big event hold into the game as a roleplay event. comment added by 87.2.215.235

Okay, so incorporate that in to the article, remember that you can only say in the article what that source says. Spigot Map 21:05, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

You are completely wrong. If we could just say what the article says means the wikipedia will add no content at all, and we could just post a link instead. Your way of handling content in wikipedia is very bad, and as I said I think you should not edit this page. Your spirit is against the wikipedia principles, and not doing anything good. comment added by 87.2.215.235

You didn't leave any time for a discussion, flagging things for deletion after few hours is non productive. You should let people see the discussion and contribute to it. Your way to handle deletion of content from PlaneShift pages speaks by itself. comment added by 87.2.215.235—Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.215.235 (talk • contribs)

I have not tagged anything for deletion. Spigot Map 21:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC)