Talk:Pig in a poke

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 Rats and Cats 2 Cat o' nine tails legend 3 Other phrases 4 Origin of "cat out of the bag"

[edit] Rats and Cats

What do you think of removing the phrase "But apparently rats and cats were not." It seems a bit non-scholarly. 71.215.217.196 18:54, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, plus what relevance do rats have to the topic anyway? It doesn't say rats could be used in place of cats later in the article. MaxKnight 01:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cat o' nine tails legend

Removed text stating that "letting the cat out of the bag" is related to the cat o' nine tails. Apart from the fact that it's hard to see how the phrase would have acquired its current meaning if the cat in question were a whip, there is no evidence for this derivation. See this discussion for example. Éamonn McManus 13:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I think two distinct expressions are being confused here. There's "letting the cat out of the bag" which, has the meaning and likely origin you describe here; and there's "the cat is out of the bag", which means that something bad is about to happen and refers to the cat o' nine tails. Anyway, that's the way it was explained to me. — Aldaron • T/C 02:39, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other phrases

Is this actually the origin of the "left holding the bag" phrase? It seems perfectly logical (and the best explanation I can find) - but every other source I can find on the 'net seems to quote this article: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-lef1.htm which quite thoroughly contradicts it. For what it's worth, the article in question does a very poor job of actually explaining its definition of the origin and sounds like conjecture, but a few more sources or a direct citation to verify the information is called for. Tofof 05:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

The explanation given in WorldWideWords is basically right. The cops are coming, your gangmates have given you the bag of swag -- or in the more recent U.S. version, of contraband drugs -- to hold and have split the scene, abandoning you to take the full blame. I can't recall any citations at the moment, but I've seen it happen a time or two (don't ask!) --Rick Drake 03:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of "cat out of the bag"

This article stated: This is also the origin of the expressions: "Let the cat out of the bag" meaning 'to reveal that which is secret'.

However, the article for the Cat o' Nine tails suggested that this torture weapon, kept in a bag, is the origin for said expression. Which one is it? Seems to me one of them is wrong, or maybe we'll never know for sure. But in that case, the doubt must be expressed and neither article should suggest to be sure about it. That's why I did a minor edit (see history). Greetings, RagingR2 19:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

It's quite clear to me: The cat that's been (or that you're being told not to) let out of the bag, is a live one, the one that's in the poke, being passed off as a pig to the unsuspecting buyer-about-to-be.

When you're talking about the Cat o' Nine tails you might say it is "out of the bag" but it cannot be "let" out of the bag; it's inanimate...

--Rick Drake 03:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC)