Talk:PhysOrg.com

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I Oppose deletion of this article. I count 61 Wikipedia articles citing this as a a source on scientific subjects See [1] Lumos3 00:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I, too, oppose the deletion of this article, not just for the reason Lumos3 cited, but also because I have found, and this is purely anecdotal, that it is a fairly well-known site elsewhere on the Internet. As such, and also considering some of the other articles and stubs here on Wikipedia, I personally see no reason for this article to be deleted. --Aldor (talk) 10:32, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I also oppose the deletion of this article. I'm not watching it, as I have a lot of other more controversial stuff to watch, but if someone nominates it, I request that I be notified. OptimistBen (talk) 21:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Notability

See following link which is a reference to the site made by well known scientist Richard Dawkins on his own webpage: http://richarddawkins.net/article,2106,n,n I hope this demonstrates the sites influential use within the scientific community and is sufficient to establish notability. Lumos3 (talk) 11:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pseudo science reference

That such discussions take place is a matter of record. That such topics qualify as pseudo science is no more an opinion than the definition of commonly accepted words. Scientific consensus defines what is and isn't pseudoscience, and scientific consensus is that topics mentioned in the previous edit are pseudoscientific.Bigdumbweirdo (talk) 16:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

These are single instances and do not justify the use of the term "Many". Nor does it demonstrate that Physorg is worse in this respect than other un-moderated science forums. You are conducting original research (WP:OR) and expressing a personal opinion about the Physorg forums. (See WP:NPOV). You need an independant published source ( see WP:RS) who holds the opinion that many discussions on Physorg are pseudoscience, and if possible that it attracts more discussion of this nature than comperable open sites. Lumos3 (talk) 00:11, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

The claim was never made on this page that physorg is worse than any other un-moderated science forums. As to the state of the given examples as pseudo-science, referencing the wikipedia page or any other source on the topic can easily verify this. I chose the instances given because they were each individually mentioned on the wiki topic. Scientific consensus on those subjects is quite clear, and it is by no means an opinion that such subjects constitute pseudo-science, although the claim that they are NOT pseudo-scientific is quite patently an opinion. By the standard you set forth, the pseudoscience page here itself does not hold a neutral point of view, as it classifies several areas as pseudoscientific. It would be impossible to even have an article on psuedoscience by that standard. As to the validity of the sources, I have seen many many pages here which reference the original page to very that a certain claim was made on that page, with no issues or arguments resulting. Finally, the number of such examples given alone qualifies the use of the word "many" as there are in fact, many such discussions. Your claim that I am conducting original research is patently false, the information is a matter of record, and is referenced appropriately. See Wikipedia:Verifiability The sources given are relevant to their notability, are not contentious by wiki standards, are not unduly self serving when taken as a source for the claim that such discussions actually take place, do not involve claims about third parties in that capacity, do not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject in that capacity, authorship is irrelevant and the article is not based primarily on them, only a single claim made by the article: That dicussions of psuedoscience are commonplace.

Bigdumbweirdo (talk) 21:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I have undid your recent change, but modified the text to be more neutral ("pseudoscientific topics" became "topics generally considered to be pseudoscientific" and "many discussions" became "several discussions"). I intend to edit it again soon to show references to sources showing that said topics are pseudoscientific to avoid any more disagreement. Expect the changes to be visible quite soon.Bigdumbweirdo (talk) 21:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The whole piece on pseudo science in Phyorg forums is an opinion of yours. That is not to say its not true, but using Wikipedia as a way to promote your own opinion is not allowed. You have to find someone , not you , who has published this opinion of Physorg in a notable way and cite them . Lumos3 (talk) 20:46, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

First, let me start by asking you to carefully re-read my last edit as well as this one, and to bring up specific points if you intend to continue arguing the issue, rather than repeating your claim that this is an opinion.

Simply repeating your claim over and over that it is an opinion does not make it so. Your threat to delete the section is nothing more than pettiness. I have given ample proof that 1: Such discussions take place, and 2: Such subjects are pseudoscientific in nature. I have provided links to areas of the site which discuss the topics in question, as well as links to wiki articles and others showing that such subjects are clearly considered to be pseudoscientific. I have cited wiki policy which specifically allows for such sources without requiring a notable third-party source repeating the claim, applicable to situations such as this: where the subject is not present in public consiousness to a degree which would lend itself to commentary by outside sources. On your side of the argument, you have done nothing to make your case except to repeat yourself, and set up straw men claims of original research (I am not the originator of the idea that these subjects are pseudo-scientific, nor have I 'uncovered previously unknown information' revealing that such subjects are discussed there. Scientific consensus holds that these subjects are pseudoscience, and publicly available information proves that discussions of them take place on the physorg forums.) Another straw man is that physorg is worse than other unmoderated forums, a claim I NEVER made, nor even implied. Your implication that I did make such a claim is dishonest in the extreme. That such discussions take place is a FACT, not an opinion, and that the topics are pseudo-scientific is a FACT, not an opinion.

Arguing with me over this is rather ridiculous, to boot. It only serves to cause multiple changes to an article and forment dissent, as well as being indicative of your own opinions, namely that said subjects do not constitute pseudoscientific topics. If that is not your opinion, then I fail to understand why you are even engaged in this argument, as I have clearly demonstrated this claim to be true. If your goal is to bring AIDS denialism, Intelligent Design or the idea that 0.9...!=1 into mainstream, you would be better served to work in the appropriate fields than to argue the issue over a relativly minor article on wikipedia.

My only interest here is to give accurate information on the subject of this article, and this argument -as I have just stated- has done nothing to further that goal, resulting only in multiple, pointless changes and the PC-ing of the phrasing, which can -from where I sit- accomplish nothing but to avoid offending those who mistakenly believe the subjects in question to be valid areas of scientific interest. I think the best thing here would be to end the issue and let the article stand as it is, except to expand it. In that interest, I will leave the phrase you added "like many popular forums" intact, despite the fact that it is untrue, as a perusal of the Terms of Service of several of the most popular science forums will show. However, I would advise you to cite your source for this claim. Bigdumbweirdo (talk) 16:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)