Talk:Pharyngeal reflex

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[edit] Medical

Medical suppressing op the gag reflex is done by consuming Cyclizine. Mion 19:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Can we have a verifiable source for that? --Verithrax 23:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] +

[edit] gratuitous references to sexual acts

Should a person want to use wikipedia to explain to their child why they sometimes gag when they're at the doctor's or dentist's office, it would be nice if they didn't run across a reference to a sexual act which adds nothing to the article. If you would like to add that reference back in, please make a case for it in the talk page before doing so. Charles (Kznf) 15:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored for minors, so that point is entirely moot. The gag reflex figures quite prominently in any activity that involves inserting something far into the mouth, or down the throat, such as deep throating or sword swallowing. The latter is mentioned, so there is precedence for the former. Hence, I vote for the reintroduction of that link. It would also be helpful, both to the practicioners of the two mentioned activities, and to the hypothetical parent, to include information about how to desensitize this response, or how to learn to control it. Note that I'm not saying one should use a penis as a point of reference for that, so don't read too much into it. Zuiram 20:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
If I understand you, what you're arguing is WP:NOT#CENSOR and I'm rebutting with WP:Profanity:

"Words and images that would be considered offensive, profane, or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers should be used if and only if their omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate, and no equally suitable alternatives are available."

It's my contention that in this particular case the omission of deep throating does *not* cause the article to be less informative, relevant or accurate, and that alternatives are available. With regard to your points about including information about how a person might desensitize the gag reflex response for the purpose of improving their fellatio or sword-swallowing keep in mind wp is not an instruction manual (WP:NOT#IINFO). That being said, I'm all for this article containing information about gag reflex suppressants, but it can certainly do so without talking about bjs. Charles (Kznf) 21:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

What about the reference to vomiting I saw before? Could we mention it in relation to bulimia for instance? (not as an instructional tool of course) cyclosarin 06:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think any reasonable person would argue that the normal act of vomiting is offensive, profane or obscene. Charles (Kznf) 14:05, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
To me, vomiting and oral sex are about at the same level of offensiveness and obscenity - a level that is well below the requirements of WP:Profanity. I would argue that simply mentioning oral sex is not obscene or offensive to most people. Including a photograph or a very graphic description of it, on the other hand, would be (this is why, despite lengthy and ongoing discussions, articles like Oral sex, Masturbation, etc, don't currently include photographs). Basic, non-descriptive mention of common activities that result in pharyngeal reflex is certainly informative, relevant, and accurate. The old wording "the act of swallowing penis" was silly though and should be changed to something more technical like "the sexual act of fellatio". If there is no objection, I'll add something to this effect:
Sword swallowing and the sexual act of fellatio may cause pharyngeal reflex, and practitioners of these activities may train themselves to suppress it. In contrast, touching the soft palette is sometimes done intentionally to trigger the reflex and induce vomiting, for example among sufferers of bulimia nervosa.
-kotra (talk) 17:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I completely agree that "Basic, non-descriptive mention of common activities that result in pharyngeal reflex is certainly informative, relevant, and accurate." My primary problem with including fellatio as an example is that it tends to invite vandalism. My objection based on profanity is only secondary to that. I also think that there are even better examples, and in thinking about the issue, it occurred to me that probably the most widespread cause of the gag reflex is during the course of dental x-rays. This is something that anyone who's had a regular check-up with a dentist can relate to, including children and non-fellatio performing men (which undoubtedly includes most of them). Wouldn't you agree that dental x-rays are a better example even ignoring the profanity and vandalism cases against using bj's as an example? -- Charles (Kznf) (talk) 17:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't recall ever gagging from dental x-ray exams, but if you say it happens, I see no reason to disbelieve you. I would support including it (I was trying to think of a third cause myself), making it instead:
Oral or throat examinations, sword swallowing, and the sexual act of fellatio may cause pharyngeal reflex, and those who practice some of these activities, particularly sword swallowing, will train themselves to suppress the reflex. In contrast, touching the soft palette is sometimes done intentionally to trigger the reflex and induce vomiting, for example by those who suffer from bulimia nervosa.
Possibility for vandalism is not a valid reason to exclude useful information. If it was, we wouldn't have articles like Breast or George W. Bush, which attract tons of vandalism. Besides, I don't see how just mentioning fellatio would attract vandalism anyway.
For the above reasons, to me it seems that perceived profanity and potential vandalism are non-issues here. So I see no reason to leave it out, especially since people will come to this article to find out information on it (as I did). -kotra (talk) 19:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
For me, it's the part where they stick that thing in that you have to bite down on. I guess it's to block the x-ray so that it only takes a picture of the part of your mouth they need. Anyway, it should be pointed out that fellatio doesn't necessarily result in the gag reflex either. In fact, the article originally referred to deep-throating, which at least does necessarily involve contact with the soft-palate. I agree that possibility of vandalism isn't a valid reason to exclude useful information. That said, I think that it makes sense to present useful information in such a way as to not detract from the original point. To me it would be like trying to describe a bird's daily diet to sixth-graders and using the titmouse as a bird example. Needlessly provocative where many other equally good or better examples exist. -- Charles (Kznf) (talk) 21:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for the slow response. The more specific "deep-throating" could be used, but I prefer to keep the term as scientific as possible. "...the sexual act of fellatio may cause pharyngeal reflex" (emphasis added) does say it only may cause the reflex, not that it does or will, so I don't think it needs to be that specific anyway (admittedly, this is a pretty weak argument, my main reason is just that I don't like the term "deep-throating"). As for your analogy, the difference exists in the "many other equally good or better examples". I can't think of any other reasonably common activities besides these three (four if you count the bulimia example). And that's not for lack of trying. Well, ok, I can think of one more: Swallowing six pills at once sometimes makes me gag if I do it too slowly. But I don't know how common an activity that is, or how common that reaction is with people who do it.
Anyway, after coming back to this after a week, it doesn't seem as big a deal to me. I'd be ok with the following instead: "Swallowing unusually large objects or placing objects in the back of the mouth may cause pharyngeal reflex, and those who frequently experience the reflex will often train themselves to suppress it. In contrast, triggering the reflex is sometimes done intentionally to induce vomiting, for example by those who suffer from bulimia nervosa." I'd rather have examples, but it's not that important. -kotra (talk) 23:49, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Since there hasn't been any response, I went ahead and added the latter version, which doesn't reference any of the specific activities. -kotra (talk) 03:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Looks great to me! - Charles (Kznf) (talk) 14:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Misleading/Wrong Nucleus

The afferent limb IS CN IX, which DOES synapse on the Solitary nucleus, but this is misleading. In the case of the gag reflex, CNIX is carrying visceral sensory (afferent) information , which is received by the Spinal Trigeminal nucleus (cranial nerves often synapse on more than one nucleus). I just learned this today in med school, but I don't have a solid reference...anyone who does should make this change b/c it's quite misleading as it stands. Thanks.

[edit] Answers.com?

How can you cite answers.com, another site with user-generated content. That's like citing wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unquenchablefire (talk • contribs) 21:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, wikpedia probably shouldn't site tertiary sources, so I've used the citation tool that answers.com provides which provided both WordNet (from Princeton) and answers.com in the citation. -- Charles (Kznf) (talk) 17:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Symptom of death?

"Absence of the gag reflex is a symptom of a number of severe medical conditions, such as damage to the glossopharyngeal nerve, the vagus nerve, or death." -- I suppose whoever wrote this meant that absence of the gag reflex can lead to death, but I don't have the knowledge to edit this myself. As it is, it says that its absence is a symptom of death. It's ultimately correct, but obvious! Plus, I don't think death qualifies as a severe medical condition ;-) -- ironcito (talk) 23:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

   I noticed and thought the same. However, there would be an absence of the gag reflex if you were to shove something in the dead person's mouth, therefore, one could say that a sympton of death is the lack of a gag reflex. Also, I believe that death could be considered a medical conditon, however, I'm not qualified to change anything here. 206.116.184.155 (talk) 17:13, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I read it and laughed too, but I think it's probably a reference to brain death? The gag reflex is one of the cranial nerve tests that a comatose patient must fail in order to qualify as fully brain dead, which is a legitimate definition of death. Also means the patient can be taken off life support. I'll change the death to brain death; anyone feel free to reword it in a better fashion if they deem fit. Nitroshockwave (talk) 07:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)