Talk:Phan Thị Kim Phúc

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Don't revert the picture! It has historical value. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:44, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Name

Phan Thi Kim Phuc's family name is Phan. Her personal name can either be Kim Phuc or Phuc, and her middle name can be Thi or Thi Kim. The naming of this article doesn't follow the naming convention of either Vietnamese names nor Western names. DHN 09:16, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I put at the begining that she is known as Kim Phuc. I would not object to someone else changing her name in the rest of the article as long as we leave in that note.--Gbleem 05:40, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] American Involvement

You call this incident without any American involvement? How could Southern Vietnam and Nothern Vietnam go to war without the involvement from America and USSR? Big fat liar

There was no American involvement in this strike. The article falsely states that "In 1996, she met with (and expressed forgiveness for) the American officer who ordered the strike;" This is not accurate. The article must be changed to reflect the truth, any reversion without evidence would be highly POV.

"There was no American commander at the scene of the fighting, no American commander involved in supporting the battle, and no American commander in the entire country who ordered that strike. It was an all-Vietnamese fight, conducted and controlled by Vietnamese. The Methodist minister who came forward to accept Kim Phuc's forgiveness at the Viet Nam Veterans Memorial on Veterans Day 1996, is a former American officer, but was not a commander, and had no command authority. He was a low level staff officer on the staff of the American advisors, in an assignment without authority even to directly coordinate actions with VNAF, much less command, order, or direct any activity. As the battle raged, he was working in a bunker more than 80 kilometers from the fighting. His own Commanding General and the Operations Officer of the unit, both now retired General Officers, have clarified that he had no authority, capacity, or capability to order any Vietnamese aircraft to do anything." http://www.warbirdforum.com/vphoto.htm http://www.vietquoc.com/jul24-98.htm Kaltes 08:38, 21 Aug 2005 (UTC)

That's fine, but I don't think this sentence "Contrary to some news reports portraying this speech as expressing forgiveness to Americans, Americans neither ordered nor carried out any of the air strikes that day." really expresses that view too well. The second half of the sentence seems unrelated to the first, or sounds rather confused, at least. Perhaps it could be reworded? I don't feel qualified to change it though. --bodnotbod 21:33, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

I fact check this article against a printed source. According to a 2000 Buffalo News interview: "Phuc was fleeing that day because an American commander gave the order to drop napalm bombs on her village." lots of issues | leave me a message 00:47, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

You will find lots of printed versions of the story. I first heard in on NPR. It was such a moving story that no one bothered to check the facts. People don't expect someone to lie about being responsible for such a horrible accident. However I'm not so sure I trust all the refuting websites. I added what I could confirm. --Gbleem 05:13, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Film or photo?

I have seen the film of this moment. I thought that the image is a still from the film. -- Fplay 04:37, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

The famous photo that was published in newspapers in the U.S. was taken by Nick Ut with a 35mm still camera. I don't think anyone else got that shot.--Gbleem 04:41, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation?

How is her name pronounced? One of her names sounds like a profanity! --Shultz 17:35, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Is the name "Phúc" literally means "fortune"? I see most of Chinese media translated her name as "潘金淑", but I've used nomfoundation.org to lookup, the term "淑" should be "Thục".--Wrightbus 22:32, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
I just saw her in a presentation at my school where she was a guest and spoke about her life and experiences. I heard her name said many times... It's pronounced like "Kim Fook".--Matt0401 19:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another picture

Is there another picture of her that can also be on the page to show her later in life? HighInBC 15:17, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I wondered the same as I believe I saw her once in a TV broadcast. I then found an excellent picture here holding her baby (click to enlarge). A wonderful contrast in the future unscarred life and the past. There are others more ordinary ones available too, but unfortunately, the usual image-on-Wikipedia problem seem to be compatible licensing. :-( So the search continutes, but I'm less hopeful about that. :-/ I guess one could try get hold of and ask copyright holder Joe McNally about that picture and try receive relaxed usage rights for Wikipedia though... -- Northgrove 00:21, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
There were many photos taken at my school's presentation that featured her as a guest. If I could get a hold of one (which I probably can) the main page would have an excellent quality picture of her as of Nov. 7 2006.--Matt0401 19:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Video warning

Although, I, a seasoned buff of military media, was not particularly fased by the video of Phan and the child badly burned, I thought it was important to place a warning about the video. If anyone has a better format in which to warn viewers, please feel free to edit.PowderedToastMan 06:55, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vietnam Memorial speech

This section strays away from the article subject completely, to discuss whether or not Plummer ordered the attack. None of it seems especially relevant, particularly given that Kim Phúc was not aware of this at the time of the meeting. I would propose that the last 3 paragraphs of the section be removed. Kevin 11:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by 'paragraphs'. I've removed

After the speech, Reverend John Plummer, a Vietnam War Veteran, talked to some of his old friends and got them to ask Kim if she would like to meet him, for he stated that he was the one who ordered the bombing. She accepted and they met briefly and Kim forgave Plummer. The news story of Kim Phúc forgiving the American who ordered the bombing was reported on a special report by the American television network, ABC. Parties who were present at the time of the attack have refuted Plummer's claim that he ordered the bombing, and Plummer subsequently admitted he had responsibilities of coordinating with the South Vietnamese forces but did not order air strikes. According to the Washington Post, 19 December 1997, Plummer says he received a call from an American military adviser working with a South Vietnamese army unit, who requested an air strike on the village of Trang Bang. He relayed the request for a strike to U.S. Air Force personnel, who asked the South Vietnamese air force to launch it. Later, he saw the photo in Stars and Stripes, and recognized the bombing as one in which he was involved.

and added

One Reverend John Plummer, a U.S. Vietnam War Veteran, had seen the photo and believed that he had a part in co-ordinating the raid with the South Vietnamese air force. He met Kim briefly and she publicly forgave him. A Canadian film-maker, Shelley Saywell, made a documentary about the reconciliation.

NPOV enough ? Even those that regard Plummer as fraudelent are not consistent in denying US presence at Bang Trang - maybe there were 'informal' arrangements ?
The Myth of the Girl in the Photo by Ronald N. Timberlake, November 1997

The only Americans involved were two advisors, one an infantry officer with the troops at the scene of battle, and the other [Plummer] in an assistant coordination assignment more than 80 kilometers away. Both officers were in positions with no command authority, and absolutely no authority over Vietnamese troops or aircraft.

There also seems to be evidence that the two meeting was not spontaneous and the forgiveness had been established before that day.
--195.137.93.171 (talk) 03:08, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Publicity

The 'famous photo' was utilised in a print and television campaign to promote the photo journalism school and associated degrees offered at Griffith University. On 20 August 2004, Griffith University also hosted 'an evening with Kim Phúc' where she raised attention to the Kim Foundation.

I've taken the bold step of removing these - I'm sure the photo has been used thousands of times - are any of them relevant to the person ?
--195.137.93.171 (talk) 03:08, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Videos

--StYxXx 09:13, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cropped version?

How come we have a cropped version of the image? The original shows both more of the soldier on the right, rolling his cigarette or whatever he's doing there [1] and the scared boy on the left [2]. If Associated Press have given permission, why don't we have the whole thing? Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 16:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)