Talk:Perkele

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Can anyone tell how to pronounce this (to an english speaker)?

Well, An easy rule in Finnish is that everything is pronounced exactly as it is written, but as some letters are pronounced differently in English, it would have to be a little more specificly explained:

All vowels are pronounced short, (unless written double, as in "Saatana") thus all the "e"s are short, like in "Helen", "P" is like in Peter, "k" is hard, as the "c" in coffin. "R" has a life of its own. It should be rolling, like the Scottish r, but still harder, and the emphasiation of the word should be on its peak at the "r". The angrier you are, the more "r"s, "Perrrrkele!" -Islander(Scandinavia) 14:15, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments removed

I have removed the following stringly POV comments from the article:

'Perkele Satan' is a common expression used to expres piss offedness. However, this is just a pure anger expression. I am finnish and knew nothing about thunder gods and swedish priests and crap adopting this and turning our wonderful gods into satanistic worshipping people. So, I don't quite see how you can put so much history and stuff into a simple word that is really only the finnish equal of 'God Damnit!!'. God damn the people who turned this fine finnish expression into the material of a dictionary.

-- The Anome 22:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Do we really need this article?

Do we really need an article for a swearword? iIf someone really wants information on what "has the role of realizing and strengthening the Finnish national identity", couldnt it just be in the "finland" section?

As it happens, Perkele is also, as the article states, an ancient deity in the Finnish mythology, which deserves an article of its own. -Islander(Scandinavia) 08:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes we do need this article because this is a word that non-finnish speaking people learn quite fast and this word can be said to make part of essense of term "Finn" or "Finnish". Perkele is culture-heritage.

It is something that is somehow wery closely related to finnish culture but I think this topic won't deserve an article of it's own.

As for the swear word it self it (of course) doesn't deserve an own article but concidering that it actually was a deity.. Another alternative would be to merge the article with Ukko and give it an own space there. Since as I got it, Perkele is just an older version of Ukko. (lol, just a side note; finnish language is funny) --DerMeister 14:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ilmarinen is the god of the sky

Ilmarinen is the most accepted pre-Christian god of the weather, and also appears as a character in the Kalevala. In common usage P***** is just a swear word. I would like to see some proof or citations to back up the claims about P***** being also a name of a God. A Finnish/English dictionary will give the definition of the word and derivatives as having to do with hell or damnation, but also the devil.

It is widely thought that Ilmarinen was originally a god of sky (like Inmar is a sky god of some other Fenno-Ugric speakers) but then a new god of sky, Perkele (that was an influence from corded ware culture) took his place. Ilmarinen did not cease, but was transformed into a human hero like he is in Kalevala. Surely there is no folk runes telling that perkele is a god, because while runes were collected Perkele had already been stamped as satan for hundreds of years. 193.65.112.51 15:55, 7 November 2006 (UTC)