Talk:Parmigiano-Reggiano

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[edit] Storage

What is the best way to store Parmigiano Reggiano in the kitchen?

In the fridge for a couple of months. --pippo2001 18:56, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cost of a wheel, possibly error

The phrase Parmigiano Reggiano festival in Modena; each wheel (block of cheese) costs 14 euros! in the last image may be wrong. Here in italy one kilo of Parmigiano cost about 10 euros, and a whole cheese weight about 30 kilos, then the cost should be about 300 Euros. May be i misinterpret the meaning of wheel.Bye --Guam 1 July 2005 13:05 (UTC)

A you can see here (in italian):

The cost of the parmisan is up to 20 euro/kilo. I think the autor has misintended the cost for 1 kilo and the cost for a whole wheel. So, 14 x 35=490 Euros, and i change the text in this way.--Guam 1 July 2005 17:16 (UTC)


The cost of Parmesan varies from country to country. It should be specified. In Italy I bought a 24 months aged parmesan for 9.90 euro/kilo, while the average price is around 12-14 euro/kilo. In France I usually find it for 20-23 euro/kilo, more than the double.

[edit] Needs a complete rewrite re: geographical protection

This article needs a complete rewrite on the geographical protection issue. In the US "parmesan" is recognised as a generic term for the type of cheese. In the EU, however, the term "parmesan" is (since 2002) legally restricted in the EU as referring to Parmigiano Reggiano. [1] This is something that the EU and the US are in active disagreement over, with the EU attempting to secure global protection for the term, and the US opposing. Some sources:

http://milan.usconsulate.gov/news/NE_ENG_062805_Lynne_Beresford.htm http://www.ictsd.org/biores/05-07-22/story2.htm http://www.dairyreporter.com/news/printNewsBis.asp?id=61223

I'll try to get around to doing this myself, but if anyone else has a chance before, feel free! Blorg 14:51, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality

The POV bits on how much better "true" parmesan is versus the "Americanized" variants need to be sourced or removed. Powers 19:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. One can also wonder, why does the American "Parmesan" needs to be described in such a detail. After all, there are Parmesan-style local cheeses all over the world and outside Europe they can still be called Parmesan and would be equally justified, inclusions to the page. Should we start to add all those non-European "Parmesans"? Z220info 10:53, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Well I don't think each country should have its own section, obviously -- but I think a section on Parmesan-style cheeses in general is important. Powers 14:07, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
the section on "imitations" of Italian Parmigiano-Reggiano is quite inaccurate. Was this article written by a limey? The Kraft brand of parmesan cheese is one of many fairly cheap parmesan cheeses made in America, which vary quite widely in quality. Nor is American parmesan sold already grated all the time. It's commonly sold in wedges or chunks and very often the shaved cheese is refrigerated and not dried and powdered. There needs to be an article on parmesan cheese. Why should there be such precious concern for some economic fiat of the European Union? American and Argentine grana padanas can be quite adequate and far more common in the New World than the imported Italian product. And the cheese is immensely popular. I'm sure hundreds of pounds of North and South American cheese is used for every pound of Italian in the Western Hemisphere. The quality difference certainly exists, but is an exaggerated "conspicuous consumption" issue. NaySay 21:53, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
The article has grown under the tutelage of people of various ethnic extractions (I am a Moonraker); my recollection is that the insistence on the (allegedly excellent) Kraft product being the epitome of American parmesan, and quite as good as anything ‘Made in Italy’, came from an American. I’d support a split—although we have been there before, and I lost the debate against merger. Anyway, one way or another, do try to introduce coverage of high quality American grana cheeses into Wikipedia. But please don’t call them Grana Padano. The Po is an Italian river. —Ian Spackman 22:54, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
I can't conceive of how someone could find American Parmesan comparable to Parm Regg, but my individual opinion doesn't matter. The point is that in culinary circles, Parm Regg is almost universally regarded as superior to foreign versions (and commands a premium in the market as a result), and it's not inherently POV to note that. --Soultaco 20:24, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm not denying it's better. But it's a tiny fraction of the Parmesan cheese in the world--especially in the Western hemisphere. And there should be something to cover the rest, whether or not it's for the hoi polloi. The rest of us eat too. NaySay 21:43, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Parmesan cheese refers specifically to the grana cheese produced in the rather limited area around Parma, Modena, Bologna and Reggio Emilia. It is a specified trade mark like Coca Cola or Pepsi. Therefore, if a page for foreign cheeses is to be created, it needs to be named either "Parmesan like cheeses" or "grana cheeses" - in the same way a generic Cola page has been created to describe, and link to, the Coca-cola- and Pepsi-cola-like soft drinks. Or, if you prefer, in the same way as Champagne refers specifically to sparkling wines produced in the Champagne hills area in France, whereas all the other similar (and generally qualitatively inferior) products are referred to as sparkling wines. Speaking of quality, it is widely accepted in the gastronomy world that Parmigiano Reggiano is qualitatively superior to the other parmesan-like cheeses, especially the mass-produced ones. The difference stems directly from the particular discipline to which Parmigiano is subjected in order to be able to carry that name (cows feeding, amount of milk, seasoning conditions, quality control, etc.) The remarks about the superiority of Parmigiano Reggiano as compared to other products are entirely based in fact, and do not constitute a POV issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by B part (talk • contribs) 18:57, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Parmesan can't be considered a trade mark as Coca Cola, since it has been protected, in Europe only, much after becoming a common name for that type of cheese. Moreover, the specific name of the italian cheese is Parmigiano-Reggiano. Although the word 'parmesan' is reminiscent of the local origin of the cheese, this is a common and legitimate way of naming products: otherwise you should admit that 'french fries' can be produced only in France! 62.101.126.233 (talk) 02:19, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Please forgive me, then, for hopping willy-nilly into this vat of fondue! I'm very grateful for the great information in the artice and the hard work that went into researching it, and I thank you. I will try to come up with some information. I'm New Englander married to a "Silly Sussexman" to whom cheese is a religion.  :-) Thanks. NaySay 15:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aging

Parmigiano Reggiano is aged for a minimum of 12 months, in practice usually for 18-24 months.

The site of the Parmigiano Reggiano consorzio claims that it is aged for at least 24 months and since the whole process is highly regulated and standardized, I doubt that you can find any cheese labeled "Parmigiano Reggiano" that is aged for only 12 months. bogdan 23:12, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Let me quote the very same website, the list of requirements for a cheese to qualify for Parmigiano Reggiano label: ...the lengthy maturation that must last at least 12 months, but which normally is extended to 2 years.... Therefore it seems that it is possible to sell Parmigiano Reggiano that is only 12 months old. One can, of course, wonder, why isn't the minimum aging period extended to 24 months if all the cheeses are in practice aged for 24 months. Z220info 10:48, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Triva too trivial?

I wonder about the trivia section. While it may in fact be true that some dishwashers dread cleaning dried parmesan, I hardly think that it is worth including in an encyclopaedia. Now, on the other hand, I understand that wheels of parmigiano are so valuable, and their worth so stable, that they are often used as collateral for bank loans. I wouldn't have a clue how to search for a citation for this though, as it was just told to me by a learned Italian gentleman. Anyway, my point is, I think that the trivia section should be removed for now, but I'm new to this, and am unsure of myself. Do people agree? DJsunkid 07:03, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

If you are new, do be bold (but not too bold lest your heart’s blood should run cold) and remove it. Then don’t be at all upset if someone reverts you. Bear in mind that they won’t know that you are new here. I think that the very first edit I made—rather nervously—to wikipedia was modified within minutes by somebody who was trying to improve my English style. English is my mother tongue. I have a degree in English language and literature from what one might call a top English university. This guy or gal had neither of those advantages. But s/he did indeed improve my English. Wow, Wikipedia is cool I thought, after a few seconds of irritation.
As to the sticky stuff, personally I wouldn’t revert anyone removing that trivium, but for the following reason I would not remove it myself: it is true that parmesan has extraordinary sticking powers to a plate—at least it did to the plates I was washing up this morning—and that fact says something genuine (is organoleptic the word?) about the cheese. It is a fact that any reader can verify for herself. Ideally someone who understands the chemistry involved might come along and explain it. Who knows, they might even be able to show that one can distinguish the genuine (PDO/DOP) article from the the Eastern European or South American copy-cat versions by applying this test.
As to the collateral thing I certainly wouldn’t revert you if you added it. But I would be tempted to do so on the basis that for an article currently this short one trivium should suffice. Google for ‘cheese collateral’ and result number three will indeed come up with the same story. Urban myth or truth, it is hard to say. It is a site that certainly represents an American company that knows a great deal about Italian cheese. But for me there are too many weird mistakes to make it utterly compelling. Ian Spackman 15:55, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
The web site PracticallyEdible confirms that parmesan wheels can indeed be collateral. You learn something every day... MrHumperdink 05:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
(http://www.practicallyedible.com/edible.nsf/encyclopaedia!openframeset&frame=Right&Src=/edible.nsf/pages/ed.0930!opendocument)

[edit] Parmesan: The fast food dish

I was thinking that the fast food dish common in North East England called a Parmesan should be mentioned in the article. I'm considering creating a section, or maybe a seperate article. A parmesan in this sense is fried coated chicken, with a layer of white sauce and cheese on top, finished in the grill. A very popular fast food dish in this area. Any comments? Mouse Nightshirt 22:26, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Um ... I've lived in the North East (in fact in Durham) for nearly nine years and I've never heard of this ... are you sure it's common/popular up here? I eat out all over the place and am quite confused ... --JennyRad 22:36, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
It's the main take out dish in the Middlesboro area (Middleboro, Stockton, Hartlepool). It's not the kind of dish available on an "eat out" basis (ie, its pretty much strictly found in fast food take aways. It does deserve a mention as it is a part of the culture of the above mentioned areas. Mouse Nightshirt 23:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Sounds worthy of a separate article to me. —Ian Spackman 08:36, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely fascinating, Mouse Nightshirt. It must be really highly Teesside specific; people in Durham are continuing to look at me blankly. Is the cheese involved actually parmesan (in which case it would probably be appropriate on this page), or is it a completely unrelated use? --JennyRad 09:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Having done further research - my data suggests that the "parmo" (nominally short for parmesan but the term is rarely used) is entirely unrelated to actual parmesan cheese. Which being so - I'd suggest either making a new article about it (seems a bit excessive unless there are other examples of similar foods which have their own articles) or else including it in either a Teesside article or a Fast Food article. And then linking to it from here, perhaps. I'm about to go away and won't have time to do it; if Mouse Nightshirt hasn't done it when I get back, I'll put it somewhere. Cheers, --JennyRad 08:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, actually I think a seperate article would be the best idea, I'll try and put one up when I have the time. Currently moving out of my flat at the minute, so I'll put a stub up tomorrow. Mouse Nightshirt 22:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Hold on, there already seems to be an article already on the Parmo. Maybe a disambugiation page with this as the initial redirect might be a better idea? Mouse Nightshirt 22:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge?

I'm proposing the two parmesan articles be merged. Objections? Kendrick7 17:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that Parmigiano Reggiano should have its own article, as is the current position. Firstly because it is a notable cheese in its own right. Secondly because it is preferable that PDO products have their own article, rather than being a section of a more general article. —Ian Spackman 02:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


actually the parmigiano reggiano is parmesan cheese  !! is simply a translation , then please remove all the fake copies of american parmesan ! if you talk about Rolex you don't make an article talking about chinese fake rolex !!

Why not have an article on fake Rolex watches? —Ian Spackman 00:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


But Parmesan cheese is not necessarily Parmigiano-Reggiano (yet) - The name Parmesan is protected in Europe but not yet in other parts of the world. But maybe I'm most confused that there are multiple page addresses all showing the same thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmesan_cheese and /Parmigiano-Reggiano and /Parmigiano_Reggiano) Why are these distinct pages rather than redirects (I'm not too familiar with the technical details of Wikipedia - so maybe it's normal)--Hghoffman (talk) 11:49, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Redirecting to Talk:Parmesan cheese no longer

Previously attempts to edit this page have been redirected to Talk:Parmesan cheese. As that was utterly confusing I have reinstated this page. Note though that relevant discussions have taken place on that page and that—in as much as the two articles are related—they may well continue to do so. —Ian Spackman 13:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reclassification of Parmigiano Reggiano as Grana Padano

I am moving the following statement from the article here for discussion/verification:

Cheese which fails to meet these criteria is removed and reclassed as the lesser grana Padano cheese.

Since Grana Padano is also a PDO cheese, and since its zone of production does not overlap that of Parmigiano Reggiano such a reclassification would appear to be fraudulent. Of course I am not claiming that fraudulent practices don’t occur in the Italian dairy industry—Parmalat, anyone? And I am not even asserting that something of the sort could not happen legally—perhaps when the cheese is sold outside of the EU. Indeed it would be very interesting if the statement proved to be true. But I think it does need to be clarified and referred to a reliable source if it is to be reinstated. —Ian Spackman 13:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Oops, It looks like I got misinformed and passed it on. I had not noticed the areas of production did not overlap. I won't put that rumor back in the article without serious confirmation. And I'll stop regarding that magazine as a reliable source. --Svartalf 14:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Never mind. An un-named magizine is a better source than most cited on Wikipedia! And, as I said, it might be true. Cheers —Ian Spackman 15:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I can name it : it was Geo ... There has been dispute as to their reliability. Now, it's a bad minus till proven otherwise. --Svartalf 15:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

(Sorry for the slow reply: somehow I have only now spotted your second comment.) I agree with you: it really does look like a piece of sloppy journalism. The writer may have just made it up, because it seemed a plausible answer to the genuinely interesting question: ‘What happens to the stuff that doesn’t make the grade?’ Alternatively s/he may have hit on some genuine piece of information while failing to notice that its ramifications ought to lead to a decidedly decent scandal. Parmigiano-Reggianogate: there was a journalistic reputation to be made there! —Ian Spackman 13:57, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

This cannot be true for a simple reason: the Grana Padano is not an inferior quality of Parmigiano Reggiano, it is another cheese entirely and it is regulated by a production discipline that is as strict as the one of the PArmigiano Reggiano. You cannot turn one cheese into another pretty much in the same way that you cannot sell Coca-Cola as Pepsi. And this cannot be done even illegally - the Grana PAdano is clearly branded on the outer crust as is the Parmigiano Reggiano. Since the branding is done during the production of the wheel, turning Parmigiano into Grana would require to scrape away the Parmigiano marking and inscribing the Grana PAdano markings. Not impossile to do, but hardly practical, not to mention that it could cost the producer the licence to produce. B part 19:21, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please create "parmigiano reggiano" redirect

Actually, "Parmigiano reggiano" (small "R") should be the correct title, as that's how it's written in Italian. Thanks. 205.228.73.13 14:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Uhm, apparently the proper name is "Parmigiano-Reggiano" (dash, capital "R"), but redirects should be good anyway. Can somebody with an account please create them? Thanks. 205.228.74.12 14:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I added a redirect. --Vince | Talk 17:35, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

  • Support: I am suggesting this move from Parmigiano Reggiano to Parmigiano-Reggiano because the officially registered name of the cheese, as an EU PDO product, for instance, includes the hyphen. (It will need an admin to make the move because of the page histories—otherwise I’d be bold.) —Ian Spackman 16:58, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

This article has been renamed from Parmigiano Reggiano to Parmigiano-Reggiano as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 18:13, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Production

The section on Production seems to leave out a major step in the process. Some kind of heating or cooking apparently takes place. This is implied in the previous section, but never explicitly stated in the production section. I think it's very important in the case of cheese to be very precise in this regard since cheese making in general has the same few basic steps. It is the very small variations in the process which produce the very large variations in finished cheeses. I'd like to see the production process written more precisely as a series of discreet steps.

I have added some more detail on the initial cheese making process - details from a Parmigiano Reggiano Consortium press-kit (May 2006) and personal experience visiting the consortium and viewing the cheesemaking process. --Hghoffman (talk) 21:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vegetarian "Parmesan"

Am I correct in concluding from this article that "authentic" Parmigiano Reggiano, as defined by the EU, is not suitable for vegetarians? It appears that cheese made without rennet cannot be labelled as Parmesan in Europe (I have seen vegetarian alternatives sold under names like "Vegetalia"). If this is the case, I think it's worth mentioning in the article. Perodicticus (talk) 11:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)