Talk:Pan-African flag

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Contents

[edit] NPOV

A flag must represent the standard by which it's people live. Thus, the Universal African Flag, the 52nd Article of the Declaration of Rights of the Negro Peoples of the World was ratified in convention.
There has been a great deal of talk and controversy over the origin, creation and use of the Red, Black and Green. The UNIA hopes that this controversy can be clarified once and for all.
There was no Red, Black and Green Flag prior to the coming of the Honorable Marcus Garvey and the founding of the UNIA. Today there are many African Nations that have adopted the colors Red, Black and Green after the great Marcus Garvey and his program of African Redemption. Any one claiming the creation of the Red, Black and Green is historically incorrect. The UNIA organization will make every attempt to clear up any misunderstandings about the matter concerning the Red, Black and Green. Further confusion can be misleading to the masses of Blacks throughout the country and the world.

Those sound like quotes; in which case they should be noted as such and sourced. Otherwise, ought to be reworded to be more neutral. E.g. removing adjectives such as "great Marcus Garvey", and citing why "Anyone claiming the creation of the Red, Black and Green" is incorrect, beyond the claims of UNIA. Or for that matter, mentioning who else is claiming the creation of it. --Mairi 02:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

A large portion of this article is indeed quoted directly from this page of the UNIA web site. I'm not sure about the copyright implications of that, but I'd think it would be best to just rewrite this stuff from more of a neutral point of view. Otherwise, it should be made much clearer (there's a " at the beginning, but that's not good enough!)

--Oolong 13:44, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I agreed so much with the above remarks by Mairi and Oolong that I went ahead and did the rewrite, deleting material that had copyright implications, was redundant, non-germane, non-encyclopedic style, or excessively POV. Added sections on similar flags and most importantly, on the other names for this flag. Left in relevant Marcus Garvey quote which has hardcopy citation. Added more historical info and citations. -- Lisasmall 19:13, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested Move

I feel strongly that this article should be moved to the name Pan-African Flag as the current title, Red, black and green flag is neither its name, nor a phrase most people would use to look it up. It's just a poorly-punctuated takeoff on the Red, White, and Blue, fine as a nickname of course but not suitable for an encyclopedia title. UNIA flag would not be my choice, because though UNIA originated the flag, it is known much more widely as the Pan-African flag or Black Liberation flag. Pan-African flag does not currently exist as an article; Black Liberation flag redirects to Red, black and green flag. I requested Pan-African flag rather than Black Liberation flag because the PAF use seems to be more current, and more reflective of:

  • the current international use of the Pan-African flag by post-colonial African nations, and
  • the shift in focus in the U.S. from Black Liberation per se to identification with all African-heritage peoples, both in Africa and in diaspora.

However, if there are strong feelings favoring Black Liberation flag over Pan-African flag, I would not object. Please add your thoughts in Discussion section below Survey. -- Lisasmall 19:13, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
  • Support I requested the move, see above. -- Lisasmall 19:13, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose The article was intended to dispel some of the myths surrounding the flag. It was from its inception the red, black and green. Because it has been popularly misnomered as the Pan-African flag only leads to even more confusion. Da Stressor 01:11, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
  • This was an unobstructed move, so I was bold and made the move myself, as virtually any registered user could have done. It's nice to ask, but there's no specific need to vote on unobstructed moevs like this. :-) ⇒ BRossow T/C 21:15, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks, BRossow, I'm just too new and timid to be bold just yet. I appreciate the guidance. -- Lisasmall 02:55, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • The Red, Black and Green flag is well-known as the red black and green by those who know...those who don't know...don't know...the flag has been immortalized in songs beginning with Ethiopia the land of our Fathers, Red, Black and Green by Roy Ayers and another song with the same title by Dead Prez. The Letter from Atlanta Prison (aka the Whirlwind Speech) by Marcus Garvey explicitly refers to the flag as the Red, Black and Green. It was originally identified as such in the Declaration of Rights of the Negro Peoples of the World in 1920. Any subsequent use does not invalidate its orgins. Therefore, I am "Boldly" returning the Red, Black and Green to its original topic and redirecting Pan-African flag here since obviously there is no source for its origin as the "Pan-African flag" but there is a definite source for red, black and green. That way anyone who looks for it under Pan-African flag can learn its real name.--Da Stressor 01:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
    • The problem with your bold move back is that it was a copy-paste move, and so didn't preserve history. Given that, I've reverted the move. If you want it moved, request a move, don't just copy-paste. Mairi 04:55, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I've undone the last move, as there was clearly no consensus for it, and also move-protected the page. —Nightstallion (?) 22:40, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Green

I've heard it said that the green stands for Ireland, because the UNIA identified their struggle for freedom with the struggle for independence of the Irish people, which was happening at the same time (i.e. 1920). Any truth to this? EamonnPKeane (talk) 00:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)