Talk:P. D. Q. Bach

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Although P.D.Q. Bach is a fictitious character, I think that he deserves his own entry because he has a body of music which is both appreciably substantial and also distinct from the music Peter Schickele has pubished under his own name. Del_arte

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[edit] Taking Pains to show P.D.Q. Bach is fictional

I am appreciative of the edits made to articles I've written; they add information I may not have known about and bring my writing into line with Wikipedia conventions.

But some of the edits to this article on P.D.Q. Bach make me wonder if it's really so necessary to so heavily underscore that P.D.Q. Bach is a fictitious character. I thought it was sufficient to write in the first paragraph that "P.D.Q. Bach" is a pseudonym which Peter Schikele uses to write satirical music.

I look at the pages on fictional characters on TV shows, such as Homer Simpson and Jean-Luc Picard, and in articles like that, the fictional nature of the character is mentioned in the first sentence and afterwards follow many paragraphs unencumbered by any reference to the fictionality of the character. On this article on P.D.Q. Bach I am seeing a tendency to preface nearly every sentence with something along the lines of "According to Schikele".

On the one hand Wikipedia has a duty to inform in a clear and accurate manner. But on the other hand, readers don't like having stuff they already know rehashed to death. Besides, I think readers are smart enough to keep reality and fiction separate, especially when the fiction is presented in as tongue-in-cheek manner as P.D.Q. Bach's life story ("the last and least of Johann Sebastian Bach's sons"). Schikele calls his audiences an "eagerly skeptic public", and when in his Carnegie Hall act he complains that people still doubt the existence of P.D.Q. Bach, the crowd laughs out loud, followed by Schikele complaining "Nobody seems to take these concerts seriously." Again, the audience laughs heartily. - Del_arte

I see what you mean. User:Marcus2 added a categorization to this page: Hoaxes. I removed it because I thought it was wrong. Here's why: Schikele presents P.D.Q. as comedy, with no attempt to actually make anyone believe that there really was a 21st son of J.S. 141.217.177.19 23:04, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Not to pass on the merits of excessive obviousness as applied to this article, but the same could be said for Orson Welles's War of the Worlds: probably no attempt to deceive, but nonetheless likely to deceive because it uses a deceptive fictional device. - Nunh-huh 23:10, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] When was the biography published?

I'm pretty sure that the copy of The Definitive Biography of P.D.Q. Bach which I read prior to working on this article was published in 1987. An anonymous user changed it to 1976 and Amazon.com says 1977. Del arte 18:34, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

P.D.Q. Bach is the INTERCAL of Baroque music.

Umm... not sure if this really a useful bit of info to have in the article. Plus, it's formatted to look like Schickele has said this about PDQ, but I've found no evidence of this. (Anyway, it's he more like the "Weird Al" Yankovic of Baroque?) Anyone object to me taking this out? Other opinions, anyone? Doug A Scott (talk) 06:39, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Well, if you know what INTERCAL is, and you have ever seen P.D.Q. Bach's books, you would know what this means, and I agree with it! It looks misplaced in the main article though... Also, this information is on one of the INTERCAL resources page. Obviously, he has also seen these things, I guess. -- zzo38(*)? 03:44, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
I have a copy of the biography (paperback) in my hand, and it has a copyright date of 1976. There could be a later edition, I suppose. GMcGath 01:44, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] La Prima Vera

A line about P. D. Q.'s having been married twice to women named Vera has appeared, disappeared, and appeared again. Sounds like time to take it to discussion. Personally, I think the Veras are non-canonical.

The basis of the Veras is an introduction which Shickele made on one of his recordings, about a piece titled "La Prima Vera." This was an excuse for a pun on "primavera" (Italian for "spring") and "prima Vera" (first Vera). My vague recollection is that the piece wasn't even ascribed to P. D. Q., and in any case wasn't actually performed. There is no reference to a piece titled "La Prima Vera," or to the associated story about his wives, in the Definitive Biography. The DB doesn't say he was married, and Schickele has ascribed all descendants of P.D.Q. to his affair with Betty Sue Bach. So I'd say the wives were just a throwaway joke rather than being intended as canon. GMcGath 13:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Just tracked it down. The joke is in "What's My Melodic Line?" (on The Wurst of P.D.Q. Bach), and is made about a different fictional composer, Archangelo Spumoni. So the claim that P.D.Q. was married to anyone is just plain wrong. GMcGath 00:04, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origins of name

Aside from the obvious origin of "P. D. Q.", does it need to be noted that this is also in itself a satire of the typical way of distinguishing between the various (actual) Bach offspring by referring to them by their initials, such as C. P. E. Bach, rather than by their full names? Rlquall 18:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Excellent idea. In particular, folks who come to this article via the comedy route, rather than the classical music route, probably don't know that. - DavidWBrooks 20:35, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Einstein on the Fritz

The sentence about "Prelude to Einstein on the Fritz" has gone through a lot of changes; the part about the Bach prelude, in fact, is my own. But when recently re-listening to the piece, I noticed that the snoring, which the sentence mentions as if it were a leading characteristic of the piece, actually occurs only for a couple of seconds. At the point in the article where the sentence occurs, the article is discussing the most important characteristics of the music and its surrounding presentation -- things like issues of style, comedic methods, Schickele numbers, etc. Citing a single piece is appropriate if it makes an important point (as does the mention of blowing through double reeds, illustrated by Iphegenia in Brooklyn). But the sentence about EotF doesn't establish any major point; the use of snoring has already been mentioned in the paragraph before. As it stands, the sentence is misleading, since it suggests that the snoring is an ongoing feature of the piece.

Perhaps the sentence could be moved down to the discussion of the appropriate "period" in which it occurs (which I'm sure is lited in the Definitive Biography, though I don't have it handy). In that case, I'd suggest actually expanding it a little; the misleading quality is partly caused by trying to cram too much information into one sentence. GMcGath 17:44, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Zounds good to me. We certainly don't need redundant material in the article. +ILike2BeAnonymous 18:01, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Musical Parodies

Hmmm... you should mention what his "contrition" period works are parodies of. The Fanfare for the Common Cold- well, that's Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man. I'm working on it. --Stratford15 01:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC) Ah, yes- The Grossest Fugue is a parody of Beethoven's Grosse Fuge and The Seasonings is a parody of Haydn's The Seasons--Stratford15 01:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changes of 4 March 2007

I reverted the changes of 4 March made by the user at IP address 71.231.108.6, because they removed the references to the fictional nature of the subject. As agreed above, this is an important aspect of the article.

If the user who made the changes disagrees with this edit, he is of course welcome to undo it, but should please explain (either here or in the edit summary) the reasons for the changes.

--Smalljim 14:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Something intresting

  • Here's a more literal translation of the PDQ's etigraph:
Here a man lies completely; 
In the body thickly,at sins richly. 
We put it into the grave, 
because it us fancies it is strained.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.103.11.210 (talk) 22:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

Which just goes to show that "literal" and "useful" are, sometimes, two completely different things ... +ILike2BeAnonymous 23:54, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, that 'translation' appears to be simply what Babelfish offers up. My stab at it: Here lies a man without compare, 'Fat' in love, and rich in sins, We stuck him in the grave, Because we think* he is wrecked*

  • I'm guessing at Schikele's translation here. I don't believe he wrote actual German, but rather what sounds German. cf. dünkt - denken (thinking), verreckt - similar in sound to English wrecked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.67.255.93 (talk) 18:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] PDQ as "plagiarist"

Someone stuck in (as a joke, apparently) that one of PDQs genres was "plagiarism" (and his occupation as well). Someone then removed it, but I restored it. It was removed under the justification that it was a joke. But the, PDQ himself is, what? a joke, correct?

I think this may actually be appropriate for this article, as Schickele himself makes much of PDQs "appropriation" of other composer's material in his "career". Maybe if someone can dredge up a reference to this somewhere. +ILike2BeAnonymous 23:54, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Plagiarism is not a genre of music, even if the character is a plagiarist. Further, the article has to stay serious, even when talking about something that isn't serious. That should be obvious. Atropos 02:32, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Weird Al of Classical Music

Would it be appropriate to describe Peter Schickele's persona of PDQ Bach as being the "Weird Al of Classical Music"? Frotz 21:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is P.D.Q. Bach really a fictitious character?

I don't see how anyone can prove that P.D.Q. Bach is a creation. He may be one, but how would you know? Wikipedia is making a statement without proof. If P.D.Q. Bach is a creation and Schickele the creator, you'd be ruining the joke by making an unproven claim that P.D.Q. Bach is only a character or did not exist. Since I have not seen any evidence or credible source to dispute the existence of P.D.Q. Bach--I feel stupid even putting it like this--then Wikipedia and its writer of such a statement is making a false assertion in order to pass off some garbage; and, maybe that was Schickele's point in the first place if it is a fiction. The point here is behavioral science--a test of gullibility. If you come out saying P.D.Q. Bach is fake without proof, just because you know better or have a gut instinct, then you're letting the cat out of the bag just because maybe you're gullible. Also, there begins an issue of the credibility of Wikipedia and its authors. It may be more comfortable for you to document what you don't know, but it isn't right. So, ultimately, I would like to see a credible source for that first sentence in this entry, firstly that P.D.Q. Bach is a fictional character and secondly that the character was created by Peter Schickele. I mean, even Peter Schickele has more evidence in saying P.D.Q. Bach exists than Wikipedia has to make its statement saying it's a fiction. Rediculous!--arthurblenheim —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthurblenheim (talk • contribs) 07:52, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm; not sure whether you're just yanking our chains, or if you're arguing in an extremely roundabout way for spoiler warnings in the article ... +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 05:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Troll alert! - DavidWBrooks (talk) 14:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] P.D.Q. Bach as arranger and conductor

I was ripping the CD "The American Roots of the British Invasion," Varése Saraband 302 066 334 2, for my personal collection, and noticed that on the track "Universal Soldier" by Buffy Sainte-Marie, it is credited as "Arranged and Conducted by P.D.Q Bach." Has Schikele used this in other non-novelty contexts? David Fell (talk) 11 February 2008

[edit] USND at Hoople

does anyone else feel it worth including that virtually all of the musicological and biographical research on this midget of the musical pantheon was done at the university of southern north dakota at hoople? this is repeatedly stated in the biography already cited.Toyokuni3 (talk)

USND at Hoople has had a Wikipedia article since 2004 ... 'Nuff Said!
Happy Editing! — 72.75.78.69 (talk · contribs) 22:27, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1807-1742

OK, the joke is that his tombstone says "1807-1742", implying that he lived his life backwards ... OTOH, the cited reference (The definitive Biography of P. D. Q. Bach) makes it clear that the calendar dates for birth and death are correct (just look at the Table of Contents) ... I have the book in hand, but do not feel like adding page numbers for each of the references, since it's all fictitious anyway ... so please, let's stop reverting each other ... Happy Editing! — 72.75.78.69 (talk · contribs) 22:22, 28 May 2008 (UTC)