Talk:Pádraig Flynn

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The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Hornandsoccer ^Talk 02:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was to move the article.

[edit] Requested move

I have requested that this article be moved from Padraig Flynn to Pádraig Flynn because there is a diacritic (Sineadh fada) over the a in Pádraig, as it is an Irish name. Snappy56 (talk) 15:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Oppose, this is the English Wikipedia - diacritics are unreadable. GoodDay (talk) 17:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Support per nom and accurate application of the diacritic. The comment above is amusing. Hús ö nd 00:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Support per nom and the previous comment. Being personally unable to read something doesn't make it incorrect. The whole point is that 'Padraig' is not this person's proper name. Rob Lindsey (talk) 03:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

But shouldn't article titles be readable for English readers? GoodDay (talk) 17:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean by "readable for English readers"? Hús ö nd 18:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Some of those diacritized names go overboard, some have those 'cubes' in their names. GoodDay (talk) 19:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment:Of course the name should be readable but how does going from Padraig to Pádraig make it unreadable? Snappy56 (talk) 23:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I must confess, I'm an anti-diacritics editor. GoodDay (talk) 23:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I guess that's pretty obvious. Being anti-diacritics denotes being unable to see any advantage in having diacritics, which in turn denotes lack of knowledge about their functions or their benefits for an accurate reading. Which is why I, in turn, am pro-diacritics and anti-inaccuracy. But for people who won't know how to pronounce "Pádraig Flynn" correctly with or without the diacritic, it's no wonder the diacritic is seen as superfluous. But that is a problem of the reader, not a problem of Wikipedia, which is supposed to be an accurate encyclopedia. Hús ö nd 23:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm in the minority anyways (it's currently 2 to 1), my resistance will be futile. If/when the article is moved, I won't fight it. GoodDay (talk) 00:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Oppose. The "as it is an Irish name" claim holds no water under our naming conventions. If you can provide evidence that the "Pádraig" is in common use in English, I could change my mind, but no evidence has been presented here. Gene Nygaard (talk) 15:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Support. I was going to oppose the move because there was no evidence that diacritic is in regular use wrt to Flynn, but did some research. I see the the Oireachtas members database uses the fada, which I would regard as fairly authoritative because the Oirechtas does not automatically apply the fada -- it follows members own preferences. The Official Report also uses the fada: see for example [1] and [2]. His profile at the European Commission website omits the fada, but the EU is inconsistent: a google search of the EU commission's website shows both uses, but I note that in general the official documents seem to use the fada.
It's a pity that none of the previous contributors to this discussion bothered to do the research :( --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Here is another link, showing the correct spelling. Snappy56 (talk) 20:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Support per WP:ENGVAR. English in Ireland uses the fada (accent) including in popular media outlets such as newspapers. The fada is used for Irish-language personal names even with English surnames and in an otherwise English context (e.g., Seán Heuston, Pádraig Faulkner, Máire Geoghegan-Quinn). The difference in national usages can be seen at the Seán Doherty dab page. — AjaxSmack 18:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

I take special note that all the cited references support moving the article to Patrick Flynn (Irish politician). (At least as much as any other name, since there are no cited references.) Gene Nygaard (talk) 15:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

See the refs which I have provided above. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.