Talk:Owney Madden
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[edit] Sources
This is a good article and pretty much everything in it sounds familiar and is probably correct. However, the article doesn't cite its sources in the text and only names one possible source, an encyclopedia. It really needs cites and footnoting.--Mantanmoreland 21:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Early Years
I remember many years ago reading (or maybe being told) that Owney Madden was a Yorkshireman from Leeds, searching the web also produced some bios saying he was from Leeds - encyclopediaofarkansas
The register of births for 1890 - 1894 has a single Owen Madden (no middle name or initial) who's birth was registered in Leeds during the Jan/Feb/Mar period of 1892 - folio 9b page 412, this would tally with reported dates of birth 18th or 25th Dec 1891.
The 1901 census has a single entry for Owen Madden, born between 1889 and 1895 and this gives him as a 10 year old "inmate" of 26 Springfield Terrace, Leeds, Yorkshire (born in Leeds). I don't know if the term "inmate" implies a criminal incarceration but it would be indicative of his future career. The report also mentions Owen's older brother Martin as living at the same address. 1901 census image Image:Madden Owney 1901.pdf
There are some bios on the web which also list a middle name either Vincent or Victor. I found an Owen Victor Madder born in 1890 in Marylebone, London. Maybe this is the source of the middle name confusion ? JohnShep 17:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
The 1891 UK census (RG12/3690 Folio 12 Page 6), taken 8 months prior to Madden's birth, shows this for his family at 25 Somerset St:
- Francis Madden 23 Navvy born Leeds Yorkshire
- Mary Madden 22 born Leeds Yorkshire
- Martin Madden son 2 ditto
- Bride Madden daughter 10 months ditto (Retiringtype 20:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC))
The 1881 UK census has this probable sighting of Madden's father Francis and his family (RG11/4487 Folio 34 Page 11)at 3 Barkers Court - which appears to be a very Irish enclave:
- Martin Madden 32 General Labourer born Leeds Yorkshire
- Mary Madden 31 born Leeds Yorkshire
- Francis Madden 14 ditto
- Thomas Madden 11 ditto
- Patrick Madden 10 ditto
- Martin Madden 7 ditto
- Mary A. Madden 5 ditto
- Michael Madden 3 ditto
- Margaret Madden 10 months ditto (Retiringtype 20:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC))
The alien immigrants manifest of the Oceanic (departing Liverpool, England 16 January 1901) shows Mary Madden apparently travelling alone. Her details are: age 32 years 6 months; marital status W ( "m" has been overwritten); nationality English, last residence Leeds; fare paid by sister; she is going to join relative Mrs O'Neil of 352 10th Avenue NY;first visit to US; no money on her ( "few shillings" has been crossed out) (Retiringtype 17:25, 23 February 2007 (UTC))
The manifest of the Teutonic dep Liverpool 4 June 1902 shows Owen, Martin and Maria Madden travelling to join their mother Mary at 352 10th Avenue, their fare paid by her. Their nationality is stated as Irish. (Retiringtype 17:25, 23 February 2007 (UTC))
The 1910 US census shows the Maddens still living with Mary's sister Elizabeth O'Neil at 352 10th Avenue and confirms that Owen's parents were born in England, that Mary came to the US in 1901 and the children in 1902. Owen (18) and his brother Martin (20) were employed as brakemen on the railroad, Mary working as a domestic. Mary is mother of 5 children of which 3 survive. 
(Retiringtype 06:23, 23 February 2007 (UTC))
On Madden's federal draft registration card from 1917 when he is an inmate of Auburn Prison he claims to be married with one child (this tallies with the reference in Nown page 27 to his 1911 marriage to Dorothy 'Loretta' Rogers with whom he had a daughter Margaret)(Retiringtype 08:45, 23 February 2007 (UTC))
[edit] Nationality
I have changed to English to reflect the facts so far, however I have added possibly Irish extraction as I believe both Madden and O'Neil (his mothers maiden name) are Irish surnames and Owney claimed it himself, of course there is the possibility he only did this to integrate with the Irish gangs in Hell's Kitchen. JohnShep 15:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Boxing's bulls
Someone wrote: "Between them, they controlled the careers of the top five boxing champions including Rocky Marciano, Max Baer, and Primo Carnera. As Primo Carnera's manager, Madden arranged fixed fights which led eventually to Carnera's winning the NBA World Heavyweight Championship in 1933. Carnera held onto the title for nearly a year, until suspicions from reporters about fixed fights led to Madden deserting the Italian strongman, setting up Carnera's famous defeat at the hands of Max Baer on June 14, 1934." I need to know your sources, where did you take those lines. Thanks. Jack 15:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Early life and the Gopher Gang
Question: Did Owney give up his British passport in the 1950's or when he was in his 50's? Since he took US citizenship in 1943, it seems likely that he was in his 50's when he gave up the passport. This needs to be corrected on his bio page. 155.82.249.253 (talk) 16:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:OMadden.jpg
Image:OMadden.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 00:55, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:OMadden.jpg
Image:OMadden.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 16:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Pretty Poor
As a direct relation of the man I have to confess I find this 'article' pretty poor. Unfortunately it is dogged by what I suspect is a bias to paint Owen as some 'English Godfather' when he was nothing of the sort and would have been horrified by the obsession with documenting his roots in Leeds/Liverpool. That he made his name by associating with the Irish of the US is a paramount fact in both his rise to power and his view of himself.
Furthermore, where are Jack Diamond, Hymie Weiss et al?!
May I suggest one of you goes out and at least buys "Paddy Whacked" by T.J English. Although it is rather romantic it offers more factual information than is on offer here.Iamlondon (talk) 17:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
