Talk:Ocarina

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[edit] The Troggs - Wild Thing

I originally wrote, "The instrumental break in the The Troggs's 1966 hit song "Wild Thing" contains an aggressive ocarina solo..."; Sonjaa deleted "aggressive". I don't think the deletion is merited; "aggressive" is not a purely subjective evaluation. "Wild Thing" is a primitivistic, proto-Punk song, and the ocarina break is played in that spirit. There might be a better adjective ("emphatic"? "rowdy"?), but please let's do better than a bare bland reference. --David Sewell 02:02, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I listened to the song and didn't feel that the solo was "aggressive" at all. Maybe "rhythmic" or "lively" or something like that? What do others think?--Sonjaaa 11:34, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Sonjaaa - it isn't really aggressive. I would say lively. Ck lostsword|queta! 17:57, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Invention

I removed the following:

The ocarina is thought to have been first conceived when it was discovered that blowing across the mouth of a water vessel or pouring jug that had broken could produce different tonalities when the holes or cracks were (un)covered with the hand or fingers.

It seems to me that this is nothing but baseless conjecture and has no place in an encyclopedia.

1) Trying to describe coincidences that might or might not have occurred in prehistoric times is not history.

2) Even if this is did happen and happened only once (originating all ocarinas), or happened many times independently, why is it important? Even if it could be established to be the truth, what does it tell us about the ocarina? or about anything?

If anyone can provide a reference to meaningful academic discussion of broken pots, they should replace it.

TomViza 01:02, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree. Aaron Walden Image:Tsalagisigline.gif

Right at the begining of the article it claims that the ocarina was invented by Shigeru Miyamoto. Can this be removed as it's a blatantly untrue.

[edit] Sweet potato

The sweet potato is only one variety of ocarina, made popular by legend of zelda: ocarina of time. It is not synonmous with ocarinas in general.

The word ocarina was coined, in 19th Century Italy, to refer to what today are called sweet potato ocarinas. The sweet potato was not originally popularized by Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, though said video game certainly led to a revival of popularity in some quarters. But you are right that it ought to be noted that the term sweet potato is more specific than ocarina, in modern usage, as ocarina is widely used to refer to any vessel flute with a whistle mouthpiece. Aaron Walden Image:Tsalagisigline.gif
Could it be possible to add a more or less comprehensive list of different types of ocarinas (perhaps with photos of each)? Ocarinas certainly come in many shapes and sizes and base notes and ranges. For example the ocarinas at http://www.hindocarina.com/ are rather different from "standard" ones. Also this link shows a quite comprehensive list of different types of ocarina by the amount of holes: http://www.stlocarina.com/ocarina-by-type.html

Here is a better list:

  • Transverse Ocarinas (also known as Sweet Potato, Classical, or Zelda) these are the "Modern" day ocarinas. The name derives from the finger system where the ocarina is held like a Transverse flute. The real name for this is a Transverse ocarina, but many people call it a "Sweet Potato" because it's body, naturally looks like a Sweet Potato
  • Inline Ocarinas are ocarinas are similar to a recorder. This type of ocarina is shaped more like a rectangle then a transverse ocarina. The fingering system looks similar to the recorder as well. The major difference bettwen the recorders fingering system is that the ocarina has 2 different rows of holes, instead of one big row. I am actually going to add a picture of an inline to the gallery, to show the difference.
  • Pendant Ocarinas (Also known as Necklace ocarinas) are very common ocarinas. It has a circular shape and a whistle mouthpiece. Most Pendants are for beginers, rather then advanced players. Although there are more advanced pendant's the most common pendant ocarinas have only 4 holes and are actually harder to play, due to having a combination finger system instead of a logical system (going up all the holes in order)
  • Peruvian Ocarinas (Also known as Painting Ocarinas) are not technically a classification. They are only classified because of how the Peruvian Ocarinas are unique. Peruivan Ocarinas are made out of cheap clay, and have paintings on it. Another thing is that these ocarinas also have 8 holes (6/2 system) usually with all the holes the same size (Typically making the ocarina flat)
  • Double/Triple Ocarinas (Also known as Chambered Ocarina) a Double or a Triple ocarina is made with two to three different chambers. This allows the player to play monophonic pieces, or polyphonic. Usually Ocarinists only blow into one chamber, but to make an extra sound, blow into both chambers at the same time. These ocarinas also have more holes (naturally) Usually around 16 to 24 holes.



I'll add a more detailed list into this article later on. Maybe tomorrow? Gliabrant 22:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rant originally posted at top of page

Listen!!! all of you out there, including you unemployed JennyRad who obviously has too much time on her hand. There are many ocarina makers out there. I just don't think it's fair to list some makers/sellers, but not others.

So unless you can list all the sellers/makers in the world in the external link section, I'm going to keep deleting it.

WHO CARES if you block me? You don't think there's a library computer I can use? No body takes Wikipedia seriously, because it's created by people like JennyRad!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.107.16.108 (talk) 23:57, 31 July 2006

You are an idiot, did you know that? It's idiots like you who make this world a bad place to live.
Since we can't list all the historical figures who have ever made ocarinas we shouldn't list any of them. Since we can't list all the bands using ocarinas we shouldn't mention any at all. Since we can't put photos of every possible ocarina type we shouldn't put any photo at all. Since we can't list all the historical cultures which have used ocarinas we shouldn't mention any of them. Since we can't mention all the video games where there are ocarinas we shouldn't list any game at all. Yeah, sure, that makes a whole lot of a sense. Let's just delete the entire wikipedia because it just can't list *everything* and thus it doesn't have the right to list anything at all. Yeah. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.100.2.66 (talk) 08:53, 1 August 2006
If nobody takes wikipedia seriously, why do you care so much? Why are you even here? And what do you possibly hope to accomplish by vandalizing a page? YOU are the reason that some people don't take wikipedia seriously. Please do not waste your time insulting others and removing perfectly fine external links.JohnWardlow 17:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] sweet potato

I clarified a statement, but want others to check it please! It says that one style of Ocarina is called the Sweet Potato. I looked through my materials and ocarina music and I see "sweet potato ocarina", which is what I changed it too. Otherwise some less-intelligent browser may think the term "sweet potato" means an instrument exclusively... or maybe I don't have enough faith in humanity?

Liastnir 05:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appeance in video games

Fans of video games tend to be devout to their supporting games, and not seeing their favorite game with ocarina appearance on the list makes them add it. The list has grown to a significant size -- too much for an ocarina article, I believe. I know that the list is never meant to be comprehensive, but I don't think that would convince the users who add the games. An incomplete list makes users want to add more to it, but since we can't let the list to grow forever, I am proposing to delete the list completely before the growing list gets out of hand; with the exception of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time which has the instrument in its title and might be notable. But even so, we don't have to mention all of its roles. I think just "various magical tasks" would be fine. --朝彦 (Asahiko) 01:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely. I have removed all fancruft from the article per wikipedia policy on cruft. Ck lostsword|queta!|Suggestions? 22:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I think that it might be relavent to note that despite the relative obscurity of the Ocarina (That might be a mis-comment. It's obscure where I come from. anyway) it has appeared in a tremendous amount of video gamesJoeldipops 11:48, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Older boys"

This article references "older boys". Older relative to what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.189.175.230 (talk) 00:39, 10 December 2006

[edit] Pictures

It looks like this article is getting a little too cluttered with pictures. Maybe we could start to consider which ones should go/stay?Mikeg1179 22:01, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Alternatively, we can consider using the gallery tag. IMHO all the pictures are informative, so:
  • "A blue and white pattern ocarina" -> gallery
  • "20th Century Japan" -> gallery
  • "English pendant ocarina " -> gallery
  • "Giuseppe" -> History section
is my proposal. --朝彦 (Asahiko) 00:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


i like ocarina-mateus

[edit] Cleaning Up and Re-organizing

I worked on cleaning up and therefore re-organizing the article this evening. I removed some redundancies and re-categorized some things. Please look it over and carefully consider my changes. I think it looks a little better now. Thanks! -RobbyPrather (talk) 08:59, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

As part of my clean-up effort, I have moved the references to the Wikipedia:Footnotes format (places the references at the end of the document, with links to said refs throughout the text). Details are at that link. -RobbyPrather (talk) 09:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Is there any other work that needs to be done or any concern with article before removing the Cleanup tag? -Barkeep 20:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Removed without any objections Barkeep 20:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
How about the trivia sections? I'd say we only keep those items where the ocarina plays a central and exceptional part. I can understand why you'd want to have Ocarina of Time in there; on the other hand listing every song played on an ocarina seems odd. Do we have articles containing all songs played on the violin? I hope not. Anyway, with "central" I mean it should not be some reference on the side, but if it's e.g. a movie, it should be central to the plot. With "exceptional" I mean that it should be exceptional within the field that the ocarina features in such a central (as defined before) role, so music won't do, since the ocarina is a musical instrument and therefore songs played on the ocarina are to be expected. But a book would qualify. I hope I'm making sense. Shinobu 21:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References in Media

Was it an ocarina being played in Pokemon 2000?Joeldipops 11:50, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Do we really want to list every single occurrence when an ocarina shows up in some television show or video game? Some of them are somewhat trivial and the purpose of a "Ocarinas in popular culture" is to help people identify what an ocarina is and should be an occurrence that is familiar to the broader public. Barkeep Chat | $ 12:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Exact formula?

the tone is dependent on the ratio of the total surface area of opened holes to the total cubic volume

That is to say: f ~ A / V (?)

Does anyone know what the constant of proportionality is? If the formula I guessed is correct, it must be dimensionless m/s, and probably depends on the medium, which would normally be air. Considering the unit I guess the speed of sound in that medium will factor in. Shinobu 21:43, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Also note that if you scale the ocarina so that its length is l, f ~ l² / l³ = 1 / l, so if we'd double the ocarina, the frequency would drop by one octave. Or you could go like: A ~ f V = l³ requiring relatively larger holes (by a factor of l). Shinobu 21:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I found the answer. For the correct formula, see the article. Shinobu 23:28, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fingerings?

This article needs more information on the various fingerings (John Taylor, modern Japanese, ...) and the mathematics behind them. Shinobu 00:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I know all of the ocarina fingerings I'll add them all in the article. Gliabrant 22:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On "Appearance" and "Popular culture" sections

I have deleted the two sections "Appearance in works" and "Ocarinas in popular culture". While I personally love watching the scene where Tototo plays an ocarina, these sections have been easy targets of crufty listings, where a user adds his/her favorite video game to the list because ocarina makes an appearance in them, one of the character uses it, etc. It is clear that this kind of trivial lists do not add to the encyclopedia article on ocarina; it contained many subjective statements like "a memorable part in the movie..." or "featured prominently..."; and it distracts readers from understanding about the instruments itself IMO. If you think I have make the article worse by deleting it, I wouldn't object to bringing it back provided that you avoid making it into a list and properly cite sources (preferrably a secondary source that mentions ocarina as a musical instrument, not merely a minor plot device). --朝彦 (Asahiko) 05:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nose bending

Could someone add some information about nose-bending? I would, only I have no idea how it works, but its certainly effective and gives my ocarina a greater range. Francis Davey (talk) 17:55, 17 December 2007 (UTC)